I knew a used M235i 6MT would be hard to find but seriously..Eek |
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03-10-2015, 06:58 PM | #23 | |
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As for the E46M3 vs. M235i debate. Completely silly, for the simply reason that you can't buy an E46 anything new (and at this point the newest are decade old cars), with all the intangibles that buying a new car entails, the biggest one being not buying someone else's dilemmas. As we all know, used BMWs are very good at dilemmas. For the stickshift dilemma - I tried for two years to find that "just right" used e91 with stick, and then gave up and did ED on a new one. Hands shaking as I signed on the dotted line below that scary number, having never spent anywhere NEAR that much on a car before. Best automotive decision I have ever made. The car is EXACTLY what I wanted, and I plan to keep it forever. And the memories of 3600 miles around northern Europe in it with a bunch of friends are priceless.
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03-10-2015, 06:58 PM | #24 |
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I agree with you,the only way to get great steering feel and handling in a BMW now is to go with an M car.They have shown that with the new M3 and M4.Hopefully they will also deliver the full package with the M2.I had to take my fathers i3 in to be serviced yesterday and they gave me a 2015 328i luxury model loaner to drive.It actually felt like I was driving a Camry rental vehicle.It was bouncy,had a tremendous amount of play in the steering and that engine shut off when you are in stop and go traffic is brutal.I guess at least you can code that out.The i3 has tighter steering and suspension.My wife's E93 felt like an M car compared to the 328i when I drove it today.
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03-10-2015, 07:09 PM | #25 | |
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03-10-2015, 09:09 PM | #26 | ||
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For reference: http://blog.caranddriver.com/bmw-det...ring-equation/
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Last edited by hoppy6698; 03-10-2015 at 09:24 PM.. |
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03-10-2015, 09:27 PM | #27 | |
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I actually like the steering and love the suspension. The suspension holds up very well in higher performance driving - much unlike the e9x chassis cars that seem very stiff and heavy and then continue plow into corners with an absolutely ridiculous amount of understeer. The F-chassis cars are much lighter on their feet, and the sports packaged cars steer even better; the fat steering wheel helps that 'feel' too. |
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03-10-2015, 09:32 PM | #28 | |
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That is great pricing and I started out looking at E92 M3's an just couldn't justify spending 45K on a car with 40K on it when the M235i is so close in pricing and "new". I may need to rethink my purchasing approach here. Cheers.
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03-10-2015, 09:40 PM | #29 | |
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03-10-2015, 10:36 PM | #30 | |
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If you negotiate $1500 over euro invoice the same car would cost $40357. This is based on $43100 base msrp. It might be a couple hundred each way. You can also have dropped off at performance center and get free M school on top. Finally if you are Bmw cca you get $500 more off. Let me know if u have question. |
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03-10-2015, 10:40 PM | #31 | ||||
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So you need to get the car that suits your needs - I thought the 235 would be a nice upgrade over the 2 135s I had. It is, but in all ways asthetics or visual. Not so much on the response or experience side. Just my opinion, but I wish more "real" opinions of this car had been out when I got mine - as you well know my man. OP - again, don't make the same mistake. Quote:
Got close to jumping into the F80, and drove an M4 multiple times at the dealer. It's several leagues above the 235, especially in the chassis and ride. The DCT is also ridiculously quick shifting. Way better than the one I had in my 2010 135 - and I am a MT guy through and through. Quote:
Driving or riding in an E46 M3 is an event. Driving or riding in a 235 is a forgettable experience, albeit a pretty and comfortable one. Just depends on what you want my man...
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03-10-2015, 11:00 PM | #32 |
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Honest question: Why haven't you sold your M235i and taken the proceeds to get one of these older, much less expensive cars that you say are more to your liking? Seems like you'd have a car you actually like—instead of one you spend a lot of time trash-talking on the internet, trying to persuade people not to buy—and a bucket of cash left over. I totally get that people have different opinions on the same car, and different priorities for what they want--it just bizarre once you made what you consider a mistake that you keep making that mistake every day. In my opinion, life is too short to drive a car everyday that you don't like, when it'd be so easy to drive one you like more.
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03-10-2015, 11:45 PM | #33 | |
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On the faster part, I threw it in there because everyone is into 0-60 time but as you said it's how it feels that really matters. With that said, OP listen to me!!!! All cars will get old and pass but the memories of Euro delivery will stay shiny forever! If you can pull it together, there is nothing like letting the beast run free on the autobahn without idiots parked in the left lane eating their sonic burger. It's truly a great car guy experience. Do it! Take your kid, wife, girlfriend. you get 2 for 1 pass on Lufthansa. Try to stay two weeks if possible to get miles on before going over 4K. Really, hope you consider it. The BMW museum is cool, the factory tour is outstanding. you can visit Porsche museum too. Best wishes. |
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03-10-2015, 11:53 PM | #34 |
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e46 m3 was to slow that's why i got rid of mine, it was a joke to be called a m3 with all the hype for its name, a jeep srt suv was faster. Which made me so mad sold it that day!
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03-11-2015, 12:37 AM | #36 | |
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He spends a lot of time almost going out of his way to trash the car. Why would he still own it then?
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03-11-2015, 08:37 AM | #37 | ||
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I am also interested in the M2, so I am waiting to see how that comes out and what it has to offer. In the event that it doesn't tickle my fancy, then I will likely get the F80 (which I have been close to jumping into anyway). Plus, I have only had the car a year, so the financial aspect of taking a bath plays into the thought process as well. You make a good point my man - and I have considered it many times. When I find the right situation, I will definitely be looking to move on. Quote:
Is it a good car? Sure. Does it have faults? Many, in my opinion. And to anyone looking at the potential purchase of one - you can find numerous threads where people talk about the car in a positive way - I think giving the OP or anyone else a different perspective is part of the value of a forum like this. I just want to provide a different opinion so that he/she will think about those areas before making their own respective decision.
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03-11-2015, 10:02 AM | #38 |
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Agreed on the M235i Euro Delivery being the best value. I have one on order for late April pickup.
Always wanted an E46 M3 but as someone pointed out, you can't get a newer one anymore. During that, if anyone has a clean used one I may be interested.
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03-11-2015, 10:05 AM | #39 |
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While we all appreciate Boone's candor, I think he's right -- this forum needs both sides of the car to be presented. Since he's done such a good job describing the car's faults, I might as well describe the car's merits.
I've posted 4 detailed threads discussing my experience with the M235i on track. I have about 9 days with that car on the track. I can honestly say that it is a great car, and extremely track capable, especially with a few minor modifications. It's a shame you can't find the 6MT available -- I have one, and I really do like the gearbox. The thing is, the E46 M3 is not an M235i, and vice versa -- they are different cars from two different time periods. They drive different, and each have their own character. However, I really don't think that makes the M235i a lesser car than the E46 -- it's a fantastic car and is pretty hardcore, especially for the time. It's just different. Maybe (and I think Boone sort of explained this) he was expecting X and got Y, but that doesn't necessarily mean that X > Y; he just wanted X. Look, you need to drive it. It doesn't make any sense to buy a car sight-unseen unless its a P1 or a 918 Spyder or something (and you have infinite money). Maybe it's your thing, maybe its not. But it is a great car. Also, I'm just going to address this now because it comes up more frequently than you'd think on this forum -- yes, older BMW's are more ANGRY AND LOUD AND HARD AND ROUGH AND VISCERAL AND OTHER WORDS. They're older and are built around different technology, and they're going to show their age. Unfortunately (or fortunately) you're not going to get those feels in a modern car, no matter what; they've figured out a way (in some circumstances) how to make a car compliant and fast, rather than OMG I BROKE MY TAILBONE GOING OVER A POTHOLE and fast. I see it as progress, but your mileage may vary. The fact of the matter is that you will probably DD this car (or an E46) and never see what it can really do on a regular basis (unless you contract the disease like I did, in which case, I am sorry). Both are great, just in different ways. Personally, I like to shred my tires at the track then have my nav system tell me how long it will take in traffic to get me home. But that's me. |
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03-11-2015, 10:52 AM | #40 |
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OP here...
I really appreciate all the feedback and spirited discussion in regards to the E46 vs. M235i comparison. I should have mentioned I'm not a track guy and this would be a DD for me (like my E46 M3 is today). I've have had the E46 for 6 yrs as the 2nd owner and yes do love the car. I'm looking for more of a refresh in technology too and that's one of the reasons for leaning towards the M235i. Must admit I went down the E92 M3 path for a bit but the prices have really held up and was not convinced I wanted to spend $45K for a car with 40K miles on it? And yes it's a different animal that E92 M3. I won't go down that bunny trail. Can you say "beast mode" Again--lots of great feedback here. I will drive the M235i before I pull the trigger!!
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03-11-2015, 11:01 AM | #41 | |
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Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
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03-11-2015, 02:16 PM | #42 | |
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15% lower than U.S. purchase is huge...thanks for sharing!
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03-11-2015, 05:45 PM | #43 |
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I was actually debating getting an e46 m3 before getting my 235, (currently also own a z3 that's modestly modded) and had an e36 m3 in the past and an e30 325... I get that there are some complaints about the newer cars being a bit softer, but in all honesty I was very underwhelmed by the E46 m3. It is a beautiful engine and all, but unless it is modded these days, it feels a bit like a dinosaur. The 235 is a bit bouncy, but I would not call it soft by any stretch, I don't think it is any softer than the stock e46 m3 but then again... I would also probably rather get an e36 m3 again over the e46... or a z3m coupe...
In any case I have had my car for a year and really like it, but I pretty much only drive it in sport mode... but the steering really isn't that bad, it's precise, quick, maybe not as much feedback as the older cars, but none of the newer ones will be much better. Anyways I would definitely drive both before buying, I liked the 235 better than the E46 M3, |
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