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M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > N55B30T0 vs. N55B30O0 - what will be the differences?

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      10-09-2014, 03:16 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killramos View Post
So our cars don't have direct injection according to this chart? because i am pretty sure they have both valvetronic and DI...

Should the engine be called N58?

also the N54 had valvetronic just not second generation form what i understand?

Is this chart still accurate?
N54 did not have Valvetronic (variable lift), only VANOS (variable timing)

I don't think the chart is accurate for older engines. For example, the classic M54/S54 engine would have direct injection according to this chart, and it did not.
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      10-09-2014, 04:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killramos View Post
Yea i was also under the impression that our engine was referred to as N55HP?

Due to the strengthened internals mostly, only on the M performance models. Are the engines stamped with their code? Has anyone checked?

Also from what i have read it was only 10 kW difference in output 0o0 to 0T0
Not sure on the N55HP designation.

If the 0O0 to 0T0 is only 10KW, how in the world can they get to the rumored level of 365-370?

I had been basing my comparisons on the original N54 to the one used in the 1M. Now the original N54 was famous for being underrated, but I believe that the 1M was also dynoed at levels where the crank would have to have been higher than 335 BHP as well.

I have just never been impressed with the N55, and I am really hoping that BMW works some magic on it. In full disclosure, I haven't driven a new M3/4 with the S55 either - so maybe that version of the 55 (with 2 turbos) is more satisfying.
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      10-09-2014, 08:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plien69 View Post
N54 did not have Valvetronic (variable lift), only VANOS (variable timing)

I don't think the chart is accurate for older engines. For example, the classic M54/S54 engine would have direct injection according to this chart, and it did not.
If you mean N54 not M54 it had DI, the N52 did not. Once they introduced turbocharging it was direct injected.
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Last edited by Lucky13; 10-09-2014 at 08:49 PM..
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      10-10-2014, 07:39 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky13 View Post
If you mean N54 not M54 it had DI, the N52 did not. Once they introduced turbocharging it was direct injected.
I was referring to the M54/S54 NA I6 engines produced from 2000-2006.

Just re-read the title of the engine chart, and it refers to it being for B-series engines only, so my original point is moot.
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      10-10-2014, 01:27 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plien69 View Post
I was referring to the M54/S54 NA I6 engines produced from 2000-2006.

Just re-read the title of the engine chart, and it refers to it being for B-series engines only, so my original point is moot.
I never read the chart, I think I've owned every engine on the list. I was just referencing that DI started with the turbo engines. I was always hoping they would use it on the N52 and then they went to turbocharging on every engine.
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      10-15-2014, 07:39 AM   #28
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M235 will eventually get B58 engine (per Scott). Thats around 330-340hp..

M2 should have a healthy increase over that. I sort of agree with 375hp that autobild is predicting, unless BMW plan to start with 350 and bump it up later..
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      01-17-2015, 12:55 PM   #29
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M2 is 2016 model with 407hp
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      01-18-2015, 03:04 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by hytham View Post
M2 is 2016 model with 407hp
I think its going to be more like 365 BHP
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      01-18-2015, 03:45 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I think its going to be more like 365 BHP
+1
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      01-18-2015, 03:52 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I think its going to be more like 365 BHP
+2 no chance over 400HP??
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      01-18-2015, 04:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChesterM2 View Post
+2 no chance over 400HP??
I don't think so. :/ and since we aren't getting the S55, there's lower tuning potential as well.

The stock internals of the N55 are said to be able to handle no more than 360 BHP in a long term reliable manner.

To me, it's not an accident that BMW is "shooting" for that number. They don't want a smaller car being able to encroach on the M3/4.
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      01-19-2015, 04:16 PM   #34
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Setting the HP so close to the N55's limit seems unBMW-like though. I hope at least some weak points are addressed to ensure longevity.
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      01-20-2015, 10:35 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb350 View Post
Setting the HP so close to the N55's limit seems unBMW-like though. I hope at least some weak points are addressed to ensure longevity.
Agreed - my guess is that we will get some % of the improvements made to the S55 - enough that BMW will be comfortable with the engine pushing 365-370 BHP reliably.
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      01-20-2015, 11:07 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plien69 View Post
N54 did not have Valvetronic (variable lift), only VANOS (variable timing)
Just for the record: the N55 engine was the first engine choice for the 1M. BMW M worked on it back in the day. However, Valvetronic issues could not be timely resolved and the time constraints were pretty serious to get the 1M into production. Result: exit the N55 engine - enter the N54 engine.
-----------------------------
About the 1M development:
"The time window for this car [1M] [was] extremely tight and originally enthusiasm was not apparent until Dr. Kay Segler came to the M Division.
We had initially toyed with the idea of a 1M when we were conceiving the Coupe and did work with evaluation models then using the engine from the E46 and the upgraded E46 CSL engine but it proved to be too heavy for the car.
Originally in the early days of marketing the standard 135i was originally meant to be an M model.
The 1M that stands before you now [2010] has had possibly the most progressive stage from thought-production turnaround for a BMW. There had to be a lot of arm-twisting in the BMW Board because of the tight window between generation 1 and generation 2 of the Coupe. The proposal was greenlighted when BMW decided to use the Coupe model for the BMW eDrive evaluation. Therefore slightly extending its life cycle.
When I first saw the car it was in a design studio as a full scale clay-model but since then some designers ideas have to make way for aerodynamics and engineering. The initial engine proposal was the N55 but they were having issues that cannot be solved within the time window. BMW greenlighted this car in July 2009, now over a year later [2010] we see it as it [is] intended, although testing still commences until the launch. Valvetronic was the main cause of the time delay but BMW have spent some time on this and are using the N55 as a basis for the next M3.
The best way to describe the engine of the 1M is a "Hybrid" but in the original form of Hybrid, nothing to do with "alternatives", but it is not a straightforward transplant.
There is a lot of this car that will carry over for the next generation 1M in which that car will switch to four cylinders to which the M Division engineers are already working on the basics without time constraints or restrictions. E82 1M is showing what is possible in a small time-frame. F22 1M will show what is possible once you do not have restrictions."

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...79&postcount=1
-----------------------------
More 1M pre-release and development history trivia:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=841751
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      01-20-2015, 12:48 PM   #37
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"....F22 1M will show what is possible once you do not have restrictions."

oh snap!! Now we talking. Let's hope this isn't just talk.
Driven two 1M's in the past two days and I want. BADLY
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      01-20-2015, 01:46 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
There is a lot of this car that will carry over for the next generation 1M in which that car will switch to four cylinders to which the M Division engineers are already working on the basics without time constraints or restrictions. E82 1M is showing what is possible in a small time-frame. F22 1M will show what is possible once you do not have restrictions."[/I]
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...79&postcount=1
-----------------------------[/INDENT]More 1M pre-release and development history trivia:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=841751
Yea, so much for that...
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      01-20-2015, 02:29 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Yea, so much for that...
For the record: that August 2010 info was accurate back then. As a matter of fact, the M2 was deemed to get a 4-cyl. (a reworked N20 engine). Scott26 confirmed the 4-cyl. layout even in January 2014. Apparently BMW M has changed plans around Winter 2013-2014: the M2 4-cyl. plan was shelved - the M2 gets a 6-cyl.
  • "Although work has commenced on the "Downsized" M, The M2 or the replacement for the most admired 1er M Coupe.
    It is known as the "Downsized" M because BMW M are investigating the concept of a completely reworked N20 based four cylinder in terms of the successor to the 1M offering the same recipe as before but with lower weight but still offering the entry to M ownership with the key of precision rather than outright power."

    http://www.f30post.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=23 - July 2012)
  • "BMW M2 Coupe - Successor to the BMW 1 Series M Coupe continues the same formula that made the last car be memorable, no huge competitor in the HP race, four cylinder will bring less weight, which matter most as does more enjoyment and overall feel is considered to be more of a priority than who has the biggest numbers. Already confirmed to be coming by BMW CEO.
    BMW M2 Gran Coupe - Baby Coupe inherits a four door brother and RWD, Direct competitor to the Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG. Scott26 shares that there are now firm plans for an M2 Gran Coupe."

    (http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=818302 - March 2013)
  • "Drop two cylinders of the Autoexpress article [i.e. 4-cyl. instead of 6-cyl.].
    BMW want the fastest four cylinder car in its segment. They also want the M2 to be the most progressive and dynamic car in its segment as well as the lightest performance car. They want a car that has a soul, unlike the Mercedes-Benz AMG A45/CLA 45 which are soulless to drive."
    (http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showp...77&postcount=3 - January 2014)
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      01-20-2015, 02:42 PM   #40
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      01-20-2015, 03:54 PM   #41
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A few observations:

1. The first zero in "0T0" means that the engine size is a full liter, it is nearly useless in describing the output of the engine.

2. According to the graphic in the OP, that I have seen posted elsewhere in the past, there will be no T0 versions of engines. The consequences of which differ depending on the assumptions that we make. The most likely option is that the graphic is incorrect and the scale starts at T0. Another option is that T0 engines are pre-production versions of T1 engines. However if we do assume that the graphic is correct, we shouldn't be seeing an N55B30T0. Whatever the reality these should be able to be verified by ynguldyn or Scott26.

3. While it is at least keeping us busy and interested. Speculating about these "rules" is an exercise in futility because the extents of these technical updates has varied greatly in the past. I for one will be happy if it revs a little higher more readily, or has a bigger turbo, or is just more efficient, because M knows how to put together a good package of which the engine is just a piece, and the N55 is a pretty good starting place.
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      02-15-2015, 01:41 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I don't think so. :/ and since we aren't getting the S55, there's lower tuning potential as well.

The stock internals of the N55 are said to be able to handle no more than 360 BHP in a long term reliable manner.

To me, it's not an accident that BMW is "shooting" for that number. They don't want a smaller car being able to encroach on the M3/4.
IMO an M2 with a detuned S55 is what should be in this car for sure. This car will likely be too small for some. I think it will eat into M3/4 sales a little, however there will still be a large market for its bigger brothers. Why not build a crazy performing car without compromise??? Show us some balls BMW!!!

This is what I am hoping for anyway...
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      02-15-2015, 02:15 PM   #43
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I think we will see a Larger TS Turbo with stronger internals w/better breath ability.

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      02-15-2015, 02:16 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3R1 View Post
IMO an M2 with a detuned S55 is what should be in this car for sure. This car will likely be too small for some. I think it will eat into M3/4 sales a little, however there will still be a large market for its bigger brothers. Why not build a crazy performing car without compromise??? Show us some balls BMW!!!

This is what I am hoping for anyway...
But like someone had mentioned before, the fact that the n55 cannot normally handle 360+ HP is beneficial in BMW's eyes. They would prefer to use an engine that cannot be easily tuned to beat its more expensive siblings (m3 and m4).

However, I think this is good for us customers too. Because with this decision, BMW must now prove to us that the dynamics of the car can make up for its lack of performance expansion capabilities.

What I think we'll get, is not a car the blows your mind in a straight line - but is packed with emotion and finesse that no other company can match. They will have to wow us with the car as a complete package of the BMW spirit.

I'm perfectly happy with how this is looking.
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