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      12-03-2017, 06:05 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
Can't resist cross posting this ongoing thread - supports my sense that the extra you get w/ the 6 isn't all that usable (nice, no doubt, but diminishing returns):

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1444861
I think the 6 doesn't put enough power and I have no issues using the stock power every single day. Just like the M2 and M4 and V8 RWD cars have no issues. For an ideal car I would want 400+ hp with weight of 3500 or less and preferably RWD

Last edited by Kolyan2k; 12-03-2017 at 06:12 AM..
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      12-03-2017, 06:10 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Shovelman View Post
Actually with the hp bump in the 230i to 248, it's not so much slower than the 235. It easily goes 135 mph which for me is fast enough. And the time and money saved at the pump is nice too. Only the turbo lag is disappointing, but that's the price paid for great mileage.
My 1995 Maxima did 140mph, not sure what's the point here. 250 and 320 is quite a lot of power difference
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      12-03-2017, 09:46 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
I think the 6 doesn't put enough power and I have no issues using the stock power every single day. Just like the M2 and M4 and V8 RWD cars have no issues. For an ideal car I would want 400+ hp with weight of 3500 or less and preferably RWD
Sounds like you need a C7 Corvette
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      12-03-2017, 10:02 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by USA-RET View Post
Sounds like you need a C7 Corvette
C7 is nice, but not for me. Probably just tune N55 I already have LSD so that helps with traction.
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      12-03-2017, 07:35 PM   #49
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I actually hate when these threads come up. I feel like people need to come and justify their purchase to try and make themselves feel better about what they bought and why instead of just enjoying their car for what it is and how it makes them feel.

There is a reason that Bmw charges more for an M240 over the 230, and that reason is that the 240 is a better car, period. That doesn’t mean that it’s a better car for any single person, but on paper, on the road, and on a race track it’s a better, faster car. I drive these cars every single day back to back to back. I sell them for a living so I get a real grasp of what’s really what and I get to compare them constantly. I know some of you guys maybe drove a 230 and an m240 back to back before and maybe didn’t think there was much difference, but when you drive them all the time you get a really good feel for what the actual differences are and how dramatically separated they are in terms of power and performance. There is a huge difference between the power delivery of the m240 and a 230. It’s not even close. There is almost 100 hp difference separating the two cars which is obviously going to be very noticeable. 230 owners can’t honestly say that they didn’t feel much difference between the two cars because there is a massive difference. Sure the 230 is a fun car when properly equipped, but the m240 is a beast and there is no comparing the two in terms of performance. When you get down in that under 5 second 0 to 60 mark a full second difference is huge and can definitely be felt so the mid 4 second run compared to the mid 5 second run of the 230 is a really big difference. Also stating that the 230 feel lighter up front is just another excuse to justify yet again.

Just enjoy the hell out of what you own and don’t worry about why you bought it. Whether you couldn’t afford the more expensive car or just didn’t need that much car doesn’t change the fact that the m240 is a very different beast than a 230.
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      12-04-2017, 01:39 PM   #50
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M2 is a better car, period.

You say just enjoy your car for what it is, but then go on a long rant about how much better the M240i is.

Honestly I never see people saying the 230i is better. Just because we enjoy our cars and they suit our our needs, doesn't imply they are better. As the name of the thread suggest, I do believe 4 cylinder 2s have merit. Just as other 4 cylinder cars out there have merit.
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      12-04-2017, 03:19 PM   #51
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Isn't "better" in the mind of the individual? Is there some master definition of better somewhere that I should be studying up on?
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      12-04-2017, 03:44 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Ron Jeffries View Post
Isn't "better" in the mind of the individual? Is there some master definition of better somewhere that I should be studying up on?
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      12-04-2017, 03:45 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdcoast228i View Post
M2 is a better car, period.

You say just enjoy your car for what it is, but then go on a long rant about how much better the M240i is.

Honestly I never see people saying the 230i is better. Just because we enjoy our cars and they suit our our needs, doesn't imply they are better. As the name of the thread suggest, I do believe 4 cylinder 2s have merit. Just as other 4 cylinder cars out there have merit.
If you read back thru my post I state that just because it’s a better car doesn’t mean that it’s a better car for any individual. Of course the 4 cup has merit. BMW did a phenomenal job with all of their new motors and the 4 banger is no exception. The 2 series in general is a wonderful car that provides a wonderful driving experience. I certainly didn’t mean to rip of the 4 cyl cars.
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      12-04-2017, 03:47 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Ron Jeffries View Post
Isn't "better" in the mind of the individual? Is there some master definition of better somewhere that I should be studying up on?
Better in terms of car performance. Not better for any single person.
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      12-04-2017, 09:09 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Mjpgolf1 View Post
Better in terms of car performance. Not better for any single person.
The premise is still based on flawed logic. There is no objective "better" performance. There may be faster, there may be higher lateral g's in turns, but those are objective numerical measures, devoid of further meaning. They are not "better", which is inherently subjective and has no significance beyond each individual's personal perception. They are factually different and may or may not appeal to someone's preference.
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      12-04-2017, 09:15 PM   #56
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if a one car is faster than another car in all circumstances i think it can objectively be quantified as better in performance. not saying that is the case here, but performance is not entirely subjective.
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      12-04-2017, 09:46 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by aozer View Post
if a one car is faster than another car in all circumstances i think it can objectively be quantified as better in performance. not saying that is the case here, but performance is not entirely subjective.
Respectfully disagree....it may be higher in performance, it may be faster, but "better" is a value-based statement, and not everyone shares the same values, so objectivity cannot be achieved. Certainly there is no objective measurement of how much better....only how much faster.

Consider a scale such as:

1) Not better at all; about the same
2) Somewhat better
3) Much better
4) Extremely better

How does one quantify the steps in that scale? How many seconds can objectively be applied in performance difference to correlate to this scale? There is no more merit to attempting to argue that the step intervals are .5 seconds than .1 seconds.

A large number of people seem to hang their egos on demonstrating superiority of an external item they own, in order to support their self-identity. Of what real value is the concept of "better" anyway? It is the argument of childhood, which for some, evolves into, "this is the one I prefer, and all other choices are to be equally respected for those individuals." The others just continue to argue meaninglessly.
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      12-05-2017, 01:17 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
but those are objective numerical measures, devoid of further meaning.
Actually those are objective performance metrics, very much relevant to a performance vehicle. There are other more "subjective" metrics such as suspension feel, steering feel, etc. But you can't just dismiss corning g-force numbers as devoid of meaning, no more than we can dismiss steering feel and the way the tail slides out.

However, all else being equal, the vehicle with the better numbers is the better car.

Now whether the better car is really the right car for you, well that's another matter altogether, because different people look for different things.

In my case I'm compensating for my small penis. That's what you 4-banger people are thinking anyway so why not just come right out and say it.

Last edited by Y0tsuya; 12-05-2017 at 01:43 AM..
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      12-05-2017, 05:15 AM   #59
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Well, yes, if you define "better" to mean better numbers (and you get to pick which numbers to use) then the car with the better numbers is the better car.

Personally, driving around Livingston Country, even in my generally illegal style, I don't often get close to the top speed, or the skid-pad number, and only rarely get to do a 0-60 run. I often blast up to around 80 on the freeway (since that's Michigan minimum standard freeway speed).

I take roundabouts as fast as one can safely do. I might pass someone on a two-lane, if they persist in driving the limit instead of 9 over like you're supposed to.

I listen to Sirius XM or switch to the news station at weather time. I take inordinate joy in saying to the car "Show tire pressure" and seeing that it does it. I was amazed when I said "Navigate to Griffith Veterinary Medicine" and it did that, too.

It's cold in the mornings, and I like the feeling of the seat heaters on my aging cold behind. I discovered the lumbar support in the seat the other day and found it eased the pain I got from lifting something I shouldn't have. When the weather's something like warm, which I define as around 60 and sunny, I put down the top. With the top down I can savor the sound of the MPE, which is nearly good but not as raspy as I'd like.

I am surprisingly fond of the rear-view camera, since vision out the back of a convertible is poor. The car is small enough to be fairly quick on its feet, and it fits in the garage nicely while leaving plenty of room in front to get in the door to the house.

There's a convenient little compartment to keep my granola bars in, to munch on after exercise class.

Those are just a few of the things that go into making a car "better" for me. As for the size of my unit, well, at my age, that's mostly irrelevant.
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      12-05-2017, 06:01 AM   #60
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This thread has turned into a bit of a monster. It was never my intention to cause division and size envy amongst 2 drivers. I was just hoping to see more interest & other good points in the 4 cyl range other than just fuel economy & car retail price.
Where I live the only bmw's I see are x3 or X5 & have no interest in suv's . I don't even know anyone that owns a bmw especially a 230i.

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      12-05-2017, 07:47 AM   #61
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In my opinion BMW makes one of the best 4 cylinders in the current market. 230i which is comparable to the audi a3 and cla 250. The 230i is a much better all around car IMHO. Could be that Audi and the Mercedes is FWD bias. I don't think it's fair to compare 228i/230i to a 235i/240i. In the end it's what makes you happy and to an average person 228i/230i looks the same as a 235i/240i.
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      12-05-2017, 08:12 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y0tsuya View Post
Actually those are objective performance metrics, very much relevant to a performance vehicle. There are other more "subjective" metrics such as suspension feel, steering feel, etc. But you can't just dismiss corning g-force numbers as devoid of meaning, no more than we can dismiss steering feel and the way the tail slides out.

However, all else being equal, the vehicle with the better numbers is the better car.

Now whether the better car is really the right car for you, well that's another matter altogether, because different people look for different things.

In my case I'm compensating for my small penis. That's what you 4-banger people are thinking anyway so why not just come right out and say it.
As long as one is locked into a paradigm that more/less of any particular attribute that they happen to favor makes a product objectively "better", this discussion won't make progress. There is no better movie, better cake, better hotel...any category you can imagine. The concept, itself, is flawed...there are only differences in the real world, and each individual assigns a personal value to them. The egocentrism of trying to assign an objective verdict of superiority to the attributes one person or a group of people value is the error to push back against. One might as well argue a white car is a better car than a black car because heat rejection is the most personally prized characteristic, making the absurdity of the projection of personal preferences more obvious.
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      12-05-2017, 08:19 AM   #63
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I have no objections at all to fun 4 cylinder cars. After all, we have a 4 cylinder Boxster that will plaster a smile on your face. We have a 4 cylinder, a 6 cylinder, and an 8 cylinder--all turbo and all fun.

Balance, handling, speed--overall package and whether it suits your needs and enough of your wants--that is the superior car.
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      12-05-2017, 09:53 AM   #64
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I get a kick out of those who would ascribe 'better' to a high cylinder count, or those who would doubt the "pleasure potency" of a meek four-cylinder.

My favorite of the six BMWs I've owned, and the car which I kept the longest in service as a daily driver was a one-cylinder 1957 BMW Isetta 300.
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      12-05-2017, 10:24 AM   #65
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i’ve liked every bmw i’ve had, until i thought of something i’d like better. of them all, the only one i wish i’d kept was the m coupe. the current m240i is a compromise: it’ll be better on most days, and nearly as good on the rest.

the most fun per buck i’ve ever had (we’re just talking cars here) were my two Miatas. Miatae. Whatever.
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      12-05-2017, 10:52 AM   #66
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There is a very basic misunderstanding here. People are writing "better" when what they mean is simply "more". The 240i is indisputably *more* car vs. the 230i but of course that does not make it *better* in any empirical way at all.
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