[Blk Thing]

I am currently running a jb4 and a downpipe on my 15 235. I was wondering if I was to get a flash tune would it be a good idea? I want to get more power out of it. I was also looking into a meth kit but not too sure how much fire I am playing with there.

[FSociety]

What are you trying to achieve?
Are you going to Dyno? Drag ? Race ?
How much power do you want ?

I like the idea of a good meth kit (especially for cooling), as long as you stay under 49% meth its not flammable, so 50/50 is the safe non-flammable for meth.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Blk Thing

I am currently running a jb4 and a downpipe on my 15 235. I was wondering if I was to get a flash tune would it be a good idea? I want to get more power out of it. I was also looking into a meth kit but not too sure how much fire I am playing with there.

Add intercooler or / and methanol injection first

[Taunto]

I would try talking to shops who have done Stage2 with heavy mods to get a good acruate answer.
I've read companies doing a DME flash for Stage 2 ugrades and then using the JB4 to act as a boost controller.

[Blk Thing]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Add intercooler or / and methanol injection first

Adding a meth kit wouldnt give me the chance of blowing my engine?

[Blk Thing]

Originally Posted by FSociety

What are you trying to achieve?
Are you going to Dyno? Drag ? Race ?
How much power do you want ?

I like the idea of a good meth kit (especially for cooling), as long as you stay under 49% meth its not flammable, so 50/50 is the safe non-flammable for meth.

Honestly just trying to get the most i can get out of the car without having big issues. Most likely used for drag/track.

[FSociety]

Blk Thing have a chat with 1 of the proTUNING Freaks BootMod3 Dealers in your area found here SSR Performance for ex. http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1321857

Here's an M235 RWD 6MT on 93 octane they did a few testing with (Not final yet) so you can have an idea. http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1331464

[wjjkoevoets]

Originally Posted by Blk Thing

I am currently running a jb4 and a downpipe on my 15 235. I was wondering if I was to get a flash tune would it be a good idea? I want to get more power out of it. I was also looking into a meth kit but not too sure how much fire I am playing with there.

I'm not an expert by any means, but as far as I know the only reason for wanting a flash tune + JB4 is when you're hitting the ECU's hardcoded boost limits. As far as I know, the ECU is limited at 25 psi. If you want to go beyond that, you would need a JB4 which can bypass the 25 psi limit.

But 25 psi is some serious boost already (I'm doing 17, 18 psi with CP, DP, JB4 and AKI95). My guess is that you will be running into fueling system and stock turbo limitations well before reaching 25 psi.

So the way I see it you have a couple of options:
- Port Injection kit
- Throttle Body Injection kit
- Methanol Injection kit
- Stage 2 Low Pressure Fuel Pump
- Ethanol mixes

Now from what I understand (others can explain this way better than me!), port injection is a very good way of dealing with the car's inadequate fueling system, but it's quite expensive and only really worthwhile when also replacing the turbo with a stage 2 one. Avoid stage 1 turbo for EWG cars such as the M235i as the cost/effort is not worth it. So this would not be my first option in your case (or in mine for that matter).

I haven't heard a lot about TBI, but from what I've heard it's not really worth it.

Methanol Injection seems like the first logical step if you already have a JB4, downpipe, chargepipe and intercooler. Methanol injection should allow you to push more boost. Temperatures should be lower and ignition timing retardation should also be reduced (which I understand means you're effectively pushing more power). I don't know how much it affects reliability, but I haven't heard of anyone blowing up their engine with the regular FBO mods + methanol injection. To me it sounds like a cheap and very reasonable upgrade if you're already FBO. At this point you will likely reach the stock turbo's limits and your only option would be to replace it with a stage 2 one (again, stage 1 isn't worth the cost and effort). But this will probably require a PI kit for the fueling system to keep up.

I am not knowledgeable enough to say anything useful regarding the stage 2 LPFP. I guess that at some point the stock pump will start to struggle. My guess is that this happens when upgrading the turbo OR when you use more concentrated ethanol mixes. But again, please let someone else answer this :P

You may also have a look at Ethanol mixes, but I have literally zero knowledge about it and every car reacts differently to ethanol. I hear some HPFP and N55s don't really like Ethanol mixes very much. Someone else should be able to explain this.

Step 1:
- JB4
- Downpipe
- Chargepipe
- Intercooler

Step 2:
- Methanol Injection

Step 3:
- Stage 2 Turbo
- Port Injection kit
- Stage 2 LPFP
- Diverter Valve upgrade
- Flash tune maybe to smooth some things out?

Step 4:
- Stage 3 Turbo
- Flash tune maybe to smooth some things out?

I think you start playing with fire once you reach step 4. I hear the internals of the N55 start to bend once you go near 600 crank HP.

I'm sure Luminous and Darkiedm4 can provide excellent advise, way better than I ever could on this subject. They have both searched for the N55's limits!

[SerenVoX]

very informative post! Approx what is the wheel HP for steps 1-3? wjjkoevoets

[wjjkoevoets]

Originally Posted by SerenVoX

very informative post! Approx what is the wheel HP for steps 1-3? wjjkoevoets

That is a very difficult question to answer. YMMV.

If you only have access to octane 91 and you live in an area where it's constantly 95F, you won't make it anywhere near 400 crank HP. If you have access to octane 93 or even 95 and you live in a colder climate, you can setup a custom map 6 with higher boost targets. You may very well get in the 400 crank hp range. I don't know the exact conversion factor to wheel HP, maybe someone can give a better indication.

With methanol injection, you can get away with even higher boosts and your ignition retardation will be reduced, which means more HP. Again, depending on conditions you probably max out at about 420 crank HP, because of fueling and turbo limits.

Now if you go have a full step 3 setup, you're looking at 500+ crank hp depending on conditions, fuel and so on. Darkie's car was pushing 540 HP with over 700 nm torque...

Step 4 will probably go towards 600+. I heard a rumor though that someone's N55 got blown up by a stage 3 turbo (bent rods I believe), so you probably want to stay away from that unless you know what you're doing :P

Also, just to be absolutely clear again, I am not an expert (can't emphasize this enough). I've just begun experimenting with custom maps myself and I have plenty to learn I can tell you though, that a JB4 + Octane 95 + Map6 is a lot of fun

[SerenVoX]

Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets

That is a very difficult question to answer. YMMV.

If you only have access to octane 91 and you live in an area where it's constantly 95F, you won't make it anywhere near 400 crank HP. If you have access to octane 93 or even 95 and you live in a colder climate, you can setup a custom map 6 with higher boost targets. You may very well get in the 400 crank hp range. I don't know the exact conversion factor to wheel HP, maybe someone can give a better indication.

With methanol injection, you can get away with even higher boosts and your ignition retardation will be reduced, which means more HP. Again, depending on conditions you probably max out at about 420 crank HP, because of fueling and turbo limits.

Now if you go have a full step 3 setup, you're looking at 500+ crank hp depending on conditions, fuel and so on. Darkie's car was pushing 540 HP with over 700 nm torque...

Step 4 will probably go towards 600+. I heard a rumor though that someone's N55 got blown up by a stage 3 turbo (bent rods I believe), so you probably want to stay away from that unless you know what you're doing :P

Also, just to be absolutely clear again, I am not an expert (can't emphasize this enough). I've just begun experimenting with custom maps myself and I have plenty to learn I can tell you though, that a JB4 + Octane 95 + Map6 is a lot of fun

Thanks, I know there are so many variables but its always good to hear ballparks since I to am learning too. Im running JB4 Map 5(autotune) with FBO. I only see 16psi max when doing doing pulls. Im sure its do to my fuel which I only have access to 92 pump. Im guessing I shouldn't add more boost with map 6 till I get better fuel? Do you know what your crank or wheel HP is yet? I plan on going meth next before stage 2 turbo..

[wjjkoevoets]

Originally Posted by SerenVoX

Thanks, I know there are so many variables but its always good to hear ballparks since I to am learning too. Im running JB4 Map 5(autotune) with FBO. I only see 16psi max when doing doing pulls. Im sure its do to my fuel which I only have access to 92 pump. Im guessing I shouldn't add more boost with map 6 till I get better fuel? Do you know what your crank or wheel HP is yet? I plan on going meth next before stage 2 turbo..

Hard to say without a few JB4 WOT logs. You'd have to check if what your current trims, avg_ign and hp_f values are. If your trims are already maxed out for example, you don't want to add more boost unless you want a drive train malfunction popping up. Same for avg_ign. If it's already in the 4.5 - 5 range, you really don't want to add even more boost. This usually happens on lower octane fuel and high IAT values. It kills your avg_ign numbers.

No, unfortunately I do not have an accurate number at this time. I actually had the car dynoed, but the operator didn't really do a good job. After the run he said their dyno does not measure wheel HP but crank hp (yeah, so they're using some magic formula to calculate god knows what...) and he told me he had made a mistake and had the dyno set up for a FWD vehicle. It all made very little sense so I threw away the paper with the result. Still looking for a place that can actually give me wheel HP output instead of using voodoo magic to calculate crank HP.

[FSociety]

wjjkoevoets very good points! try to find a Dynojet place that would be your best bet.

Also been reading a bit on meth injection lately and if you live in a hot climate or hard to access E85 stations, the Meth Injection with proper failsafe kit will provide superior cooling benefits to IAT than E85. There was a recent video I saw on the pros/cons of Meth and E85 and conclusion was use both LOL.

OP, btw there was a recent 335 RWD 8AT FBO w/ Meth Injection (standalone kit) running BootMod3 21psi map (no jb4) and so far seems to be Stock Turbo World Record at 446whp/570wtq on Dynojet, you guys can see it here




http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=36

[Pparana]

I run fbo with meth, only use the meth at the track, it is a bit laggy unless your WOT like at track. Definitely keeps everything cool and juiced. I would probably just go with a flash ECU tune if for street use, may not produce more power but will feel like it because the maps are smoother than a piggyback. I have driven both on street. That said JB4 gets better w each update, and maps 1 and 2 are more than enough for street.

[SSR Performance]

PM sent sir Let's get Bootmod3 loaded and turn this thing into a beast!

[SerenVoX]

Originally Posted by Pparana

I run fbo with meth, only use the meth at the track, it is a bit laggy unless your WOT like at track. Definitely keeps everything cool and juiced. I would probably just go with a flash ECU tune if for street use, may not produce more power but will feel like it because the maps are smoother than a piggyback. I have driven both on street. That said JB4 gets better w each update, and maps 1 and 2 are more than enough for street.

Do you have pics of your meth setup? Where did you buy your kit? Is it port inject or on the CP? Would love to learn more about it, let us know

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

I know it was mentioned before but just to reiterate - 100% make sure you get upgraded charge pipes! The OEM charge pipes are known to fail under stock boost pressures.