[TonM3]

Originally Posted by MassNerd

I've been trying to stay out of this conversation because I have no problem that I drive an "M-lite". I wasn't shopping M cars, I was shopping Mustangs and Camaros and the M240i stacks up well against them no matter what it is called.

There is a question I want to pose to the M historians and M purists though. Have you driven a stock E36 M3 or E39 M5? They were great cars, and more capable on the track than most factory cars of that era. In my opinion, they weren't the "hard edged", "Extreme performance" machines that today's M cars are though. Yet they were worthy of the M badge.

So has the bar risen for what is considered a "true M"? Or am I mistaken on my opinions of the E36 and E39?

My M240 convertible is better than my old E46 M3 convertible un every way, including acceleration, handling and engine sound.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by MassNerd

There is a question I want to pose to the M historians and M purists though. Have you driven a stock E36 M3 or E39 M5? They were great cars, and more capable on the track than most factory cars of that era. In my opinion, they weren't the "hard edged", "Extreme performance" machines that today's M cars are though. Yet they were worthy of the M badge.

I don't really consider my M2 Competition to be an "Extreme performance" machine either. It's just the most hardcore version of the 2-series. But certainly other cars in its price range (any lotus, Mustang GT350, Corvette Grand Sport etc.) are all more "extreme" performance cars for the money. M cars have always been more all around performance cars IMHO, one of the things they all share is that they do not ride on bespoke sports car platforms.

They make some similar numbers on paper to the more extreme sports cars out there, but they also are more practical.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by MassNerd

There is a question I want to pose to the M historians and M purists though. Have you driven a stock E36 M3 or E39 M5? They were great cars, and more capable on the track than most factory cars of that era. In my opinion, they weren't the "hard edged", "Extreme performance" machines that today's M cars are though. Yet they were worthy of the M badge.

So has the bar risen for what is considered a "true M"? Or am I mistaken on my opinions of the E36 and E39?

1) No. The only E36 M3s I've driven are race and track-only cars. The closest I came to an E39 M5 was an E24 M635CSi (i.e., Euro M6) I owned in the mid-80s. The M6 was a revelation for that time period, and I chose an M240i because it almost perfectly replicates the experience I had in the M6 – sound, power, driving dynamics, size – I'm back in my M6 again and lovin' it!

The most-recent M3 I've driven was an E92. That was on the track at 6/10ths, so not really relevant, and I have no recollection of any mods the car may have had.

2) As I haven't driven one, I don't really know. For example, are the bushings stiffer? I've assumed that many or most of them must be, but I don't know.

The issue for me is this: BMW tells us which are M-cars, and which are not. In my opinion, the 'M' in our cars is an M-for-Marketing 'M' (not that there's anything wrong with that), and the 'M' in an M2 is an M-for-BMW-Motorsport 'M'.

My principal interest in BMWs is how they handle, and the differences that matter to me are: LSD, wheel and tire limitations, suspension compliance, bushing stiffness, overall rigidity, and alignment flexibility.

I wanted something that I knew would be softer than an M2 but would still be a car I could mod into what would best meet my needs. For the street, I didn't want some of the rigidity or the bushing stiffness, and I was willing to give up the ability to easily fit wider wheels and tires than the M240i will accept. The rest I could alter to my satisfaction, yielding (for me) a better-than-M2 car at a lower price.

[Sportstick]

I had the opportunity to work on naming vehicles, price classes, option packages at another car company in my past career. This truly is marketing-driven with little substance...any of these cars could have been or now be called almost anything that didn't chase people out of the showroom. On this topic, I chuckle when I refer to my THP-equipped car as a M228i, as it's only missing two cylinders!

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

On this topic, I chuckle when I refer to my THP-equipped car as a M228i, as it's only missing two cylinders!

Yeah, in my mind I'm driving a 230i. I thought briefly of badging it as such but couldn't be bothered; plus, there'd still be, what, 16 'M's festooning various parts of the car.