[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by OldCrow7xx

Hey guys I am doing alot of research today trying to figure out how to build and drive my car. I grew up poor with parents who know absolutely nothing about cars or physics, so this is all new to me. I have a 2016 M235i FBO Stage 2 with X-Delete now.

How should I calibrate my car if I want the following parameters:

-Very heavy steering, I do not want the car moving unless I force the wheel hard. I have a very heavy hand and do not like then the steering is so light and floaty. When I put the car on "eco mode" I feel like 1mm of turn on the steering wheel and the car is veering off the highway.

-I want the hardest suspension settings, I want the car to cut and corner on a blade, I do not care about ride quality. I just want fun and responsiveness. I am coming from a K20 Civic Si that cornered on rails.

-I want the throttle to be as responsive as possible, often times in this car I feel like I have to go to 80% pedal or more to get the thing to wake up and respond to me. Again the civic felt so eager to rev and respond to my input, I just want this car to listen to me that way again.

-I want the wheels to be able to spin, but have that final safety net as I learn to slide and drift my first high power RWD car. I want to be able to break traction and see the power I have forced the engine to produce is existing.

Thanks in advance, this thread has already helped me more than anything in the past 3 months.

Cheers

You want Sport+. Simple as that.

[Winemaker2]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

You want Sport+. Simple as that.

+1

See my earlier post, it just makes sense.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by Maynard

The only safe environment is on a track at an HPDE. And 'safe' means all you lose is the money for bodywork. These quick 'how-to-drift' comments don't even discuss throttle-lift OS, which is the typical snafu for newbies. You can develop much of this feel with extensive winter driving, but it is really irresponsible to encourage somebody new to try to develop a feel for correcting a slide on the street (and IIRC, Porsche would have given their first born for 320hp in a 944 - I think those were 930 numbers, and that was widely regarded as a death trap).

There's always going to be some risk involved. Even at an HPDE event you can lose more than your money and bodywork. Personally, I found an empty parking lot more helpful, simply because I could get in a lot more "reps" than I would be able to at a HPDE. Some may see this as an unacceptable risk and that's fine. We all have to figure out what we're comfortable with. The bottom line for me is that I don't want to injure or kill anyone else due to my stupidity and an empty parking lot got me there as a young man.

Lift throttle oversteer is definitely a noob mistake, but i've seen enough cars and coffee crash videos to know that beginners also struggle with its far more basic cousin: power oversteer.

That said, I'd agree that an HPDE is ideally the best first step to learning car control and I especially agree that the street, even in winter weather is no place to learn car control.

[Winemaker2]

MoFlow I am getting to like your comments except instead of an empty parking lot, there are some other options available. Just the Dad in me speaking. Look at joining BMW CCA and especially at your local club to find some of those options.

[msej449]

For the OP, this is what happens in the wet if you turn everything off. This is me in a Euro M140i RWD 6-cyl turbo sports auto in SPORT+ and DSC OFF

As far as I understood, there was no eDiff operating. This setup has almost no intervention from the car's traction computers.

The only software intervention I could observe was on the other car, which had had the latest software update: I was able to do a reverse J-turn by moving from [R] in reverse, to [D] as I rotated by quickly turning the wheel to spin 180°. The other car couldn't do this because BMW in their wisdom assume that someone moving from 40mph in reverse thru 180° is in some sort of accident situation and drops into [N], requiring a press of the brake before being able to go into [D] (as if a reverse J-turn wasn't difficult enough ....)

The video was taken at the start of the lesson. By the time it finished an hour later we were both handling the car fine in the wet with everything as disengaged as possible. But we did spend the first 20 mins spinning it repeatedly - as you can see.

SPORT+ (DSC ON) was nowhere near as dramatic as the above. On a 1-10 scale of 'out of control' with normal mode at 1 then SPORT+ was around 3 and the above around 9.

OP: This course was run at my local racing circuit (Goodwood, UK) and I'd really recommend you looking for something similar (BMW CCA etc.). There is no way you want to be on this sort of learning curve on a public road or even empty car park: ideally you'd be in someone else's car and on a track. This course was a steal at GBP £99 for a half hour of tuition and an hour on the circuit. I've done one of these before in a Lotus ELise, and I reckon it saved me from at least two serious accident on public roads, given how it programs your muscle memory and reactions.

The other thing worth noting is that at the end of the session, the instructors were on the lookout for wheel and suspension damage. This as a result of going sideways so much: the suspension really isn't designed to do this that often. So it's another reason why I wouldn't take my own car on a wet track to do this sort of thing.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by msej449

SPORT+ (DSC ON) was nowhere near as dramatic as the above. On a 1-10 scale of 'out of control' with normal mode at 1 then SPORT+ was around 3 and the above around 9.

OP: This course was run at my local racing circuit (Goodwood, UK) and I'd really recommend you looking for something similar (BMW CCA etc.). There is no way you want to be on this sort of learning curve on a public road or even empty car park: ideally you'd be in someone else's car and on a track. ...I reckon it saved me from at least two serious accident on public roads, given how it programs your muscle memory and reactions.

The other thing worth noting is that at the end of the session, the instructors were on the lookout for wheel and suspension damage. This as a result of going sideways so much: the suspension really isn't designed to do this that often. So it's another reason why I wouldn't take my own car on a wet track to do this sort of thing.

Rally schools can be used to solve these problems. Clients use the schools' cars on private courses, and they spend a good deal of their seat-time in controlled slides. The skills learned and the muscle memory developed translate quite well to street and track driving.

Drivers need occasional practice to maintain those skills and muscle memory, however; otherwise, it's like any other sporting skill - it atrophies due to lack of exercise. I found that easiest when living where it was snowy and icy in the winter.

There's another aspect to getting professional instruction in these driving skills that's worth mentioning, and that's anticipation. Through repetition, drivers learn to anticipate when and what the car is going to do before it begins to do it. That margin of safety might make all the difference in a situation where DSC can't save the car.

[High Desert]

I did the MINI (BMW) driving school in Thermal, CA, twice. Watched the BMWs on the Xcross course during breaks and tires were smoking. They have a skid pad, Xcross, and for the MINIs (don't know about the Bimmers) I got a few "hot" laps on the Thermal tracks. The repeated phrase "if the tires aren't squealing, you aren't doing it right." All of the cars are autos. They also teach safety.

The instructors (all x race drivers) were excellent. Couple of hours of classroom. During some of the exercises the DSC was off or 50% like on the skid pad. They will work with your interests and answer questions. By the way, been doing MINIs for 17 years and my latest is heavily modified S. You name it, it modified it. B48 engine. Picked up a 228i xDrive convert for the wife, a project car. Luckily I have the same part sources and newtis manuals for the BMW. Same tools, just bigger. Enjoying this forum.

[XutvJet]

DSC Off is the only mode that eLSD active. Go heavy/full throttle on water soaked pavement and a torquey RWD car will be a mess regardless if it has an open diff, eLSD, or LSD. With an open diff or eLSD, the rear end is far more unglued and snappy than with an LSD. The eLSD is good for most drivers. If you're someone that drives hard and pushes the limits, you'll want the LSD. The limits between having just the eLSD vs LSD are substantial.