[CanadianGatorBacon]

I posted in the wheel and tire sub-form about the vibration I feel all over the car since I had my winter wheel and tire set put on starting at around 60 mph but really getting noticeable at around 70 mph. Unfortunately with work and Snowzilla, I haven't had a chance to get the wheel balance rechecked (but I haven't driven much either).

Testing out today whether I think the vibration is the roads or the balancing, while driving with the radio off, I also noticed a high pitch warble sound at about the same speeds. I tried in comfort and in sport modes to see if the change in rpm made a difference, and it did not. The sound didn't happen at the same rpm in lower gears either. So, the sound seems speed related.

I'm about 25 miles from 1,200, so I'm going to take it in this week, but if anyone has any idea what this might be so I can tell the dealer to check it out it would be greatly appreciated.

[Cyberdemon]

Is the warble noise just tire noise? Snow tires generally make more road noise than others because the tread blocks are deeper. Similar to how offroad tires make a racket on the highway.

For the vibration, it simply sounds like a wheel balance issue. Just to ask a potentially obvious question - given the blizzard, you don't have snow or ice melted inside your wheels do you? Snow stuck inside the wheel will throw off balance dramatically and cause quite a bit of vibration.

[BEM-S4]

Could also be a bent rim

[CanadianGatorBacon]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Is the warble noise just tire noise?

Just to ask a potentially obvious question - given the blizzard, you don't have snow or ice melted inside your wheels do you?

I hope it's just tire noise, but I haven't seen anyone else mention this kind of noise for the same tires, Blizzak WS80. I usually think of tire noise as lower frequency rumbling, rather than a high pitch warble.

No snow or ice in the wheel. I've been parked in a garage and today was my first day driving since the blizzard started.

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Could also be a bent rim

No loss in tire pressure over the last couple of weeks. How likely is it to have a bent rim but to maintain tire pressure? I've confirmed that my dealership does road force balancing, so if it is bent hopefully they can catch it.

[Cyberdemon]

It's very easy to have a bent rim that will still hold air. The rubber bead of the tire is pretty good at conforming to the shape once it's on there.

But, since I assume you were driving on the same wheels prior to putting on the snow tires (without any issues) unless it's been bent since then, it likely would've shown up previously.

If not, just tell the service manager you can take him for a ride to show him. Often times they aren't going to go above the speed limit in a customer car for obvious reasons, so saying "I get a shimmy around 100" will probably go undiagnosed.

One last assumption, are you using the factory wheels or aftermarket wheels? If you are using aftermarket wheels that are not hubcentric, it's possible the wheel is not properly centered on the hub.

[Luminous]

Did you buy your winter wheels new or used? Sounds like a bent wheel.

[CanadianGatorBacon]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

But, since I assume you were driving on the same wheels prior to putting on the snow tires (without any issues) unless it's been bent since then, it likely would've shown up previously.

One last assumption, are you using the factory wheels or aftermarket wheels? If you are using aftermarket wheels that are not hubcentric, it's possible the wheel is not properly centered on the hub.

Originally Posted by Luminous

Did you buy your winter wheels new or used? Sounds like a bent wheel.

All purchased new for this season, tires from tire rack and wheels directly from Apex. These wheels are a dedicated winter set, so it's the first time I put them on and use them. The set up is Apex Aero-7 18x8 et 45 and Bridgestone Blizzak WS80 225/40 front and rear. The Apex wheels are flow-form (so hopefully harder to bend) and hubcentric (Center Bore: 72.56mm). I haven't noticed hitting any big potholes or hard knocks to the wheels while driving.

Of course it could be a manufacturing issue. But from what I understand, road force balancing should be able to detect bent or out-of-round wheels. The dealer that mounted and balanced my wheels and tires confirmed they use road force balancing, and didn't make any mention of any issues with the wheels or tires.

If they can't figure this problem out the next time I'm there, I'm going to look into taking it to another dealer or a specialty shop.

[BEM-S4]

If it's the first time bend is unlikely. That said, for future knowledge, I was driving around on 3 bent rims for a month or two before getting to dealer. No loss of pressure. Sounds like balancing as others have said since brand new.

[overcoil]

Any vibration in steering wheel? ( but, vibration in seat) If no inspect rear wheels, notice if the adhesive weights attached appear excessively large or attached in more then one location on the circumference of the wheel.

The warble description seems like tread induced. But if you can check under car to make sure all the underbody cladding is tightly screwed in.

[IDBMW]

I bought a snow wheel, tire and TPMS set up for my truck. I had a horrible vibration and noise. I took it back 4 times for balance and once to check the alignment which was good. I felt the bad tire was in the rear so the shop rotated the tires then I had a shake in the steering wheel. The tire shop finally put the tires on a Hunter Road Force balancer and found I had two tires that were way out of spec. They replaced the tires and the truck is a smooth ride now. Perhaps the Road Force machine would tell if you had wheel or tire issues.

[BEM-S4]

One other thing to try although doubt this would be the issue - did the shop mount the wheels properly in the car? Assume you've got a square setup but there's def a drivers side vs passenger side difference as the tires are meant to go one way based on tread pattern. Not sure if that would produce the effect you're describing, or any effect at all. Think more traction issue.

[CanadianGatorBacon]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

Any vibration in steering wheel? ( but, vibration in seat) If no inspect rear wheels, notice if the adhesive weights attached appear excessively large or attached in more then one location on the circumference of the wheel.

The warble description seems like tread induced. But if you can check under car to make sure all the underbody cladding is tightly screwed in.

Vibration in the steering wheel and seat. I'll have to check on all of these things when I get home. Wish my building's garage had better lighting.

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

One other thing to try although doubt this would be the issue - did the shop mount the wheels properly in the car? Assume you've got a square setup but there's def a drivers side vs passenger side difference as the tires are meant to go one way based on tread pattern. Not sure if that would produce the effect you're describing, or any effect at all. Think more traction issue.

You are correct, square setup. I didn't think that the Blizzaks had a directional tread, but looking at pictures online, I guess they do. Hadn't noticed that because it's so blocky. I'll have to take a look.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by CanadianGatorBacon

Vibration in the steering wheel and seat. I'll have to check on all of these things when I get home. Wish my building's garage had better lighting.

You are correct, square setup. I didn't think that the Blizzaks had a directional tread, but looking at pictures online, I guess they do. Hadn't noticed that because it's so blocky. I'll have to take a look.

I only noticed bc mine came from tire rack marked for car location.

[CanadianGatorBacon]

So I checked the rotational direction on the tires and they are all right. I also checked the adhesive wheel weights. There aren't any on the front driver side and rear passenger side. There are only two on the rear driver side. But the front passenger side:

and

[overcoil]

That's a lot of weigh on the top picture.
Ask if others with snow tire's have that much weight on?

[CanadianGatorBacon]

I also noticed today that the vibration and warble are worse in the morning when my car has been sitting in a garage all night rather than a colder surface lot all day. Maybe this suggests a tire issue? Warmer tires worse than colder tires? Seems to make sense at least for the warble if a warmer tire has a slightly larger contact patch that may cause more tire noise. Not sure how a warmer, softer tire would cause more vibration than a colder, stiffer tire.

[CanadianGatorBacon]

I've got an appointment to bring the car in early next week (the dealer had to order a trim piece they broke when they loaded my summer tires into the car so they can replace it at the same time when I bring the car in). Fingers crossed they can get this fixed.

Noticed another thing. The vibration and noise are really prevalent with my foot on the gas, even when not accelerating but maintaining constant speed. As soon as I take my foot off the gas, the noise and vibration reduce significantly or maybe even go away.

I'm going into a downward spiral now. Starting to think the engine is idling rougher too.

This is freaking me out a bit. I'm hoping that this doesn't turn into something major with the transmission or other parts of the drive train.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by CanadianGatorBacon

I've got an appointment to bring the car in early next week (the dealer had to order a trim piece they broke when they loaded my summer tires into the car so they can replace it at the same time when I bring the car in). Fingers crossed they can get this fixed.

Noticed another thing. The vibration and noise are really prevalent with my foot on the gas, even when not accelerating but maintaining constant speed. As soon as I take my foot off the gas, the noise and vibration reduce significantly or maybe even go away.

I'm going into a downward spiral now. Starting to think the engine is idling rougher too.

This is freaking me out a bit. I'm hoping that this doesn't turn into something major with the transmission or other parts of the drive train.

Deep breath, it's all covered so you will be fine. Worst case scenario have them give you something fun (I had an X4 last time) and save the miles on your car for a bit while they fix it.

[CanadianGatorBacon]

So I got the car in to get checked. I was supposed to take it in next week (missed my appointment this week because of work), but yesterday the car developed a new noise at around 40 mph. Freaked me out because at first it was kind of a grinding/crunching noise, but then it became more of a high pitched wheeze. Definitely more steady sounding than the warble at 70 mph. Both sounds begin to immediately subside or disappear after I take my foot off the gas, even if speed is maintained, and pick back up when putting my foot back on the gas.

I also ran through 5th-8th gears at 70 mph and the sound stayed the same. Kind of a relief, since that seems to suggest it might not be a transmission issue.

Got a call from my service adviser. He said that the "tires were definitely out of balance" which sucks since they supposedly balanced them twice already (think I'll be finding another dealer for service). But, they attribute the noise to the winter tires.

Going to pick it up tonight. Hopefully the balancing helped. I have my doubts.

[CanadianGatorBacon]

So the balancing got rid of the vibration. Great that it took them three tries to get it right. Anyway, I got a second opinion on the noises. I took a ride with my sales guy (different dealership than the one that was servicing my car), who is an enthusiast himself and really knowledgeable. He put the car through some driving test and said he didn't feel anything out of the ordinary, and is of the opinion that it is just tire noise. Before we went out on the road, he did note that the tire pressures were off and fixed that for me. The tires were filled to even pressure all around, between the door sticker numbers. In other words, the backs were low and the fronts were high.

While I still have to deal with the noise, at least I'm at ease about it. What I did learn from this process is that I'm taking my car elsewhere to get serviced.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by CanadianGatorBacon

So the balancing got rid of the vibration. Great that it took them three tries to get it right. Anyway, I got a second opinion on the noises. I took a ride with my sales guy (different dealership than the one that was servicing my car), who is an enthusiast himself and really knowledgeable. He put the car through some driving test and said he didn't feel anything out of the ordinary, and is of the opinion that it is just tire noise. Before we went out on the road, he did note that the tire pressures were off and fixed that for me. The tires were filled to even pressure all around, between the door sticker numbers. In other words, the backs were low and the fronts were high.

While I still have to deal with the noise, at least I'm at ease about it. What I did learn from this process is that I'm taking my car elsewhere to get serviced.

Glad it worked out. For what it's worth, I love my service department but they just aren't super knowledgeable about less common cars. They could field strip and reassemble a 3-series in about 20 seconds, but M235 they just don't see as much. My adviser keeps calling mine an M2. At least they're not as bad as VW, when I took my diesel T-Reg (the original super nasty one) in they had no idea what to do with it.

[CanadianGatorBacon]

When I took my m235 in for what I called a post-break in service, the service adviser was so confused as to why the M2 post-break in service wasn't covered under my service plan. I get it if you work at an independent shop that sees cars of all makes and models. But if you are brand specific, it would be nice to at least know the basic differences between the cars. I mean, I've already paid for most of the service for the next 4ish years, I'd like to know that the people doing it are treating my car right.