[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by nachob

Stripper M4 is about 3450-3500 lbs which so actually M235i auto is heavier!

Let's call it same weight! That's what's crazy, the 235i is heavy and it's not even AWD or something like that.

M4 - 3585 lbs
M235 - 3535 lbs

so i guess M4 is 50 lbs heavier

That's what they focused on the M4 reduce weight...

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by jaffa12

Anyone who thinks M235>M4 is either too passionate about his/her 235 or just plain silly cos it infers the M2 would >>M4 and BMW AG would never allow that.

Maybe, but I wonder.

The M3/4 is certainly one of the standard-bearers for BMW. However, like many have spoken of, these cars have gotten bigger & heavier than they need. For the non-enthusiast Dentist who just wants the "best" 3 series, they're fine. Hell, they're still one of the baddest, practical DD's around.

The 1 series M was a rough-and-tumble, party-in-a-can. It laid down specs that were virtually identical with the V8 M3 of the day. So it wasnt like BMW wasn't going to let this little step brother to the M3 be all that it could. Sadly, it was plagued by it's too-small size, cheaper trim, limited run and stubby appearance. It was BMW's 1st stab at going small/spunky in a long time.

I believe the 2 series reflects BMW's adjustments to the 1 series that got things "just right" for what they were aiming for.
A small, sporty, driver's car that's better looking, higher quality, has great handling and strong acceleration.

Journalists and folks from every corner have hearalded this as one of the best BMW's in years, a return to their roots, etc. Many have drawn close comparisons with the early M3's in terms of almost identical size/performance. Heck, even BMW ran it's iconic "Torch passing" commercial non-stop during the Olympics, pulling at the nostalgic heart strings with the 2002.

That's some expensive air time. I've not seen any other car by them get as prominently featured as this. And BMW has gotten a lot of street cred back with the M235i.

Sooo…..

BMW knows they have to serve 2 masters.

1) The soccer moms and d-bags that have to have a bimmer because it’s the thing to do.
2) Drivers

Cars for #1 makes them the money (3 series, 5 series, X3, X5, M5, etc.)
Cars for #2 lets them sleep at night

The new M3/4 are strong entries, but IMO they no longer blast past the competition. The M235i with a light spray by the M Performance division has used mostly bolt-on parts and is kicking some pretty good ass against most cars in it's class. It's got great size, chassis, balance, brakes, motor, etc.

It sounds like the M2 is going to add another ~60 hp, tighten up the suspension, throw on some bigger tires/wheels, improve the brakes and possibly lighten things up a bit. This should allow it to roast past the MB CLA45, Subie WRX, Audi RS3, etc. To say nothing about how it will stack up against the current M3/4.

At that point I think you'll see a lot of people scratching their chins at BMW dealerships as they contemplate just how comfortable the back seat folks need to be.

[W///]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

Maybe, but I wonder.

The M3/4 is certainly one of the standard-bearers for BMW. However, like many have spoken of, these cars have gotten bigger & heavier than they need. For the non-enthusiast Dentist who just wants the "best" 3 series, they're fine. Hell, they're still one of the baddest, practical DD's around.

The 1 series M was a rough-and-tumble, party-in-a-can. It laid down specs that were virtually identical with the V8 M3 of the day. So it wasnt like BMW wasn't going to let this little step brother to the M3 be all that it could. Sadly, it was plagued by it's too-small size, cheaper trim, limited run and stubby appearance. It was BMW's 1st stab at going small/spunky in a long time.

I believe the 2 series reflects BMW's adjustments to the 1 series that got things "just right" for what they were aiming for.
A small, sporty, driver's car that's better looking, higher quality, has great handling and strong acceleration.

Journalists and folks from every corner have hearalded this as one of the best BMW's in years, a return to their roots, etc. Many have drawn close comparisons with the early M3's in terms of almost identical size/performance. Heck, even BMW ran it's iconic "Torch passing" commercial non-stop during the Olympics, pulling at the nostalgic heart strings with the 2002.

That's some expensive air time. I've not seen any other car by them get as prominently featured as this. And BMW has gotten a lot of street cred back with the M235i.

Sooo…..

BMW knows they have to serve 2 masters.

1) The soccer moms and d-bags that have to have a bimmer because it’s the thing to do.
2) Drivers

Cars for #1 makes them the money (3 series, 5 series, X3, X5, M5, etc.)
Cars for #2 lets them sleep at night

The new M3/4 are strong entries, but IMO they no longer blast past the competition. The M235i with a light spray by the M Performance division has used mostly bolt-on parts and is kicking some pretty good ass against most cars in it's class. It's got great size, chassis, balance, brakes, motor, etc.

It sounds like the M2 is going to add another ~60 hp, tighten up the suspension, throw on some bigger tires/wheels, improve the brakes and possibly lighten things up a bit. This should allow it to roast past the MB CLA45, Subie WRX, Audi RS3, etc. To say nothing about how it will stack up against the current M3/4.

At that point I think you'll see a lot of people scratching their chins at BMW dealerships as they contemplate just how comfortable the back seat folks need to be.

Nice post! I think jaffa was talking about pure numbers though. The torque advantage of the 1M was what made it able to creep up to the E9x M3 in terms of performance. We won't be seeing that with the M2 vs M3/4. The objective numbers will be better from the M3/4 than the M2.

Having said that, subjectively, I think the M2 is going to be an amazing car. I was so set on an AY F80 as my next car, but one drive of the M235i has made me into one of those people scratching their chins and really wondering if I actually need a 4 door. Now, the M2 has shot way up my list

[overcoil]

Bladeomatic wrote "...The new M3/4 are strong entries, but IMO they no longer blast past the competition. ..."

I think the M3 is the best car out there right now ( maybe until new E-class and of course McLaren P1 ). Camaro Z-28 transmission is made in Mexico.
I would have said Cayman was the ultimate but I believe the M-235 has duplicated how well the accelerator positions the chassis in fast or wet turns as well as the Porsche. Porsche 997 is an ergonomic mess.

[J-Sud]

Originally Posted by W///

Wow, you only lasted 6 months in the Audi? What happened?

And it's not just your opinion, the M4 IS > than M235i in all aspects, apart from the sheer size of it (bigger than I need it to be.

The Audi is a nice car don't get me wrong, nice interior (I had baseball optic) but at the end of the day is drove like a fwd 4cyl turbo VW like the one I drove in college.

After the new and pretty wears off it brings no smile to drive

[nachob]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

M4 - 3585 lbs
M235 - 3535 lbs

so i guess M4 is 50 lbs heavier

That's what they focused on the M4 reduce weight...

I believe the manual M3 is even lighter. Is that auto to auto, manual to manual or manual vs auto? I guess it doesn't matter, the point is that they are essentially the same weight depending on options but M3/4 have more power, rubber, full lock diff and firmer suspension so it's just not really a contest.

I do think that the M2 HAS SOOOOO MUCH POTENTIAL to be a real kick-a$$ car but it depends on BMW and YOU! Everyone is so happy with cushy ride, fake sound, folding mirrors, lcd displays that BMW is just trying to make everyone happy. If people let BMW know they want an option of a firmer, lighter, more focused car there is a higher likelihood that that they will make it. If no one cares or says anything, they will probably just continue on the electro-soft path where all of a sudden Lexus, Audi become more compelling. I really hope someone gets it at M this time. I wonder what the new M director will say...he comes from Audi which doesn't reassure me but I keep hoping.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by J-Sud

The Audi is a nice car don't get me wrong, nice interior (I had baseball optic) but at the end of the day is drove like a fwd 4cyl turbo VW like the one I drove in college.

After the new and pretty wears off it brings no smile to drive

I get what you say but some of my funnest days before the 1M were driving VWs in college...GTI Mk1, Scirocco Mk1, Jetta GLI 16V and even 93 Sentra SE-R. Yes they were cheap but great fun. The new GTI is great fun too, great sound, great suspension, great brake feel and almost half the price of M235i. If the Audi S3 is even better than current GTI, that will be a compelling car for the automatic crowd.

[W///]

Originally Posted by nachob

I believe the manual M3 is even lighter. Is that auto to auto, manual to manual or manual vs auto? I guess it doesn't matter, the point is that they are essentially the same weight depending on options but M3/4 have more power, rubber, full lock diff and firmer suspension so it's just not really a contest.

I do think that the M2 HAS SOOOOO MUCH POTENTIAL to be a real kick-a$$ car but it depends on BMW and YOU! Everyone is so happy with cushy ride, fake sound, folding mirrors, lcd displays that BMW is just trying to make everyone happy. If people let BMW know they want an option of a firmer, lighter, more focused car there is a higher likelihood that that they will make it. If no one cares or says anything, they will probably just continue on the electro-soft path where all of a sudden Lexus, Audi become more compelling. I really hope someone gets it at M this time. I wonder what the new M director will say...he comes from Audi which doesn't reassure me but I keep hoping.

I look at it this way. I thoroughly enjoyed driving an M235i (with 8AT, which is not much choice). It's not like the M2 is going to be worse, know what I mean? If there were no plans for an M2, I would have been pretty happy to replace my E36 with an M235i with 6MT.

You add M3/4 bits to an already excellent M235i = I need to put my name down on the list at the dealership.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by nachob

I believe the manual M3 is even lighter. Is that auto to auto, manual to manual or manual vs auto? I guess it doesn't matter, the point is that they are essentially the same weight depending on options but M3/4 have more power, rubber, full lock diff and firmer suspension so it's just not really a contest.

I do think that the M2 HAS SOOOOO MUCH POTENTIAL to be a real kick-a$$ car but it depends on BMW and YOU! Everyone is so happy with cushy ride, fake sound, folding mirrors, lcd displays that BMW is just trying to make everyone happy. If people let BMW know they want an option of a firmer, lighter, more focused car there is a higher likelihood that that they will make it. If no one cares or says anything, they will probably just continue on the electro-soft path where all of a sudden Lexus, Audi become more compelling. I really hope someone gets it at M this time. I wonder what the new M director will say...he comes from Audi which doesn't reassure me but I keep hoping.

ya auto-auto.... difference is similar man-man... i would think M3 should be heavier than the M4

[Researcher]

Originally Posted by missxmelon

THANK YOU!



Seriously, Researcher, no one here cares about your Corvette... at least not enough to hear about it three times. You do realize this is a forum for the 2 Series. And since you HAVE a M235i, it would be way more awesome to hear about THAT car. Otherwise, go post on the Corvette forums - I'm sure they'd love to hear all about it.

Is funny how people on this forum act: whenever one raves about how good the M235 is and that it may actually be better, as many in the media agree, than the True M cars then suddenly everyone comes out to say how the M cars exceed the 235 in general terms. What a bunch of contrarians! Go into the M forums to talk about those M toys!

[hyperzulu]

Well considering your now locked thread was originally intended to show off about how much faster your Corvette was than the M4, many people are going to assume you're just trying to say the same thing but in a manner which may help you keep your thread from getting locked. It's a bit d-bagish. You had your say, now let's just settle down.

I have a philosophy degree and can say with certainty that your logic is highly flawed. "Vette beats M4. M235i should beat M4." Unless M235i can beat Vette, you are making a statement based on nothing. I'm sure you're not going to say that the 2 can beat the Vette, so you have no way of knowing if it can beat the M4. And since you chickened out of racing it the last time it challenged you, I have to imagine you too believe that the M4 can smoke your 2.

[jeremicium]

Originally Posted by Researcher

Is funny how people on this forum act: whenever one raves about how good the M235 is and that it may actually be better, as many in the media agree, than the True M cars then suddenly everyone comes out to say how the M cars exceed the 235 in general terms. What a bunch of contrarians! Go into the M forums to talk about those M toys!

The irony of this post is epic!

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

The new M3/4 are strong entries, but IMO they no longer blast past the competition.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...r/viewall.html

[missxmelon]

Originally Posted by Researcher

Is funny how people on this forum act: whenever one raves about how good the M235 is and that it may actually be better, as many in the media agree, than the True M cars then suddenly everyone comes out to say how the M cars exceed the 235 in general terms. What a bunch of contrarians! Go into the M forums to talk about those M toys!

It's funny how you act on this forum... you rave about your Corvette, and when someone calls you out on your lack of relevancy, you complain about people posting about M cars... Which is exactly what you've been doing. At least M cars are made by BMW. Take your Corvette bragging elsewhere.

I don't get why you quoted me either, since you did not address any of my points and instead posted irrelevant ones (which seems to be your forte).

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Well considering your now locked thread was originally intended to show off about how much faster your Corvette was than the M4, many people are going to assume you're just trying to say the same thing but in a manner which may help you keep your thread from getting locked. It's a bit d-bagish. You had your say, now let's just settle down.

I have a philosophy degree and can say with certainty that your logic is highly flawed. "Vette beats M4. M235i should beat M4." Unless M235i can beat Vette, you are making a statement based on nothing. I'm sure you're not going to say that the 2 can beat the Vette, so you have no way of knowing if it can beat the M4. And since you chickened out of racing it the last time it challenged you, I have to imagine you too believe that the M4 can smoke your 2.

Yup. He created this thread after his other one was locked. So I definitely fall in the group of people who think he's trying to say the same thing. It's very d-bagish. Nice one on taking down his logic, too.

[missxmelon]

Originally Posted by jeremicium

The irony of this post is epic!

Haha, so true.

[Researcher]

So we had a weekend to party with a M235 with all M Performance add ins. A stingray vette, and a fully loaded M4. Seven drivers and many many opinions. Here is what we unanimously agreed:

The 3 cars are completely different and attract rather different target drivers; however, the performance margins are not so different.

While the M4 and Vette are brutal full performance oriented vehicles, the M235 actually did not lag too much behind in terms of street performance.

The Vette is the acceleration king. The M4 is the most balanced in terms of dynamics but also luxury. However, what we all agreed was that the M235 is the absolute best bang for the buck that brings with it touches of luxury as an icing on cake. One of our drivers was so impressed that she placed an order for a MG 235 last Monday!

There were no winners or losers here; just 3 outstanding machines. The surprise was just how close the 235 is in terms of overall competency in this iconic group!

[sstarrx3]

All are nice cars...what touches of luxury on M235i I wonder??? Functional and sporty yes...luxury hell to the no!!!

[Researcher]

If you look at the inside of the vette; you will understand what I am saying. Yes the 235 has more lux inside than many cars. But obviously none of these compare to a Bentley.

[ska///235i]

235 luxury????

Is this a joke lol

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

235 luxury????

Is this a joke lol

Guy reads like a young kid with car posters on his wall doing a lot of day dream blogging

[missxmelon]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Guy reads like a young kid with car posters on his wall doing a lot of day dream blogging

[david.orr]

Originally Posted by Researcher

So we had a weekend to party with a M235 with all M Performance add ins. A stingray vette, and a fully loaded M4. Seven drivers and many many opinions. Here is what we unanimously agreed:

The 3 cars are completely different and attract rather different target drivers; however, the performance margins are not so different.

While the M4 and Vette are brutal full performance oriented vehicles, the M235 actually did not lag too much behind in terms of street performance.

The Vette is the acceleration king. The M4 is the most balanced in terms of dynamics but also luxury. However, what we all agreed was that the M235 is the absolute best bang for the buck that brings with it touches of luxury as an icing on cake. One of our drivers was so impressed that she placed an order for a MG 235 last Monday!

There were no winners or losers here; just 3 outstanding machines. The surprise was just how close the 235 is in terms of overall competency in this iconic group!

FFS guys, there is nothing wrong with this post which is considered and balanced notwithstanding the crap he has received to date. Let's stick to the car talk.