[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by Arbitrage10k

xDrive with all seasons < RWD with winters

This.

I drive a RWD 135 all winter in Massachusetts with no issues as long as I put my snow tires on From Halloween through St Patty's Day. In fact, I have less trouble getting around in the snow than my girlfriend who drives a Subaru Outback with All Season tires.

All that said, if your GF will be the primary driver and if she is not what you would call a skilled all-weather driver (can she handle a car appropriately if it begins fishtailing or skidding?), I think the AWD with snow tires is the way to go.

So, if you want:
Max performance if mostly driven by a skilled driver: Go RWD with snows.
Max safety for a "regular" driver with only modest skills: AWD w/snows.

In either case, go with snow tires. AWD with all seasons gives no advantage over RWD with snows.

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

This.

I drive a RWD 135 all winter in Massachusetts with no issues as long as I put my snow tires on From Halloween through St Patty's Day. In fact, I have less trouble getting around in the snow than my girlfriend who drives a Subaru Outback with All Season tires.

All that said, if your GF will be the primary driver and if she is not what you would call a skilled all-weather driver (can she handle a car appropriately if it begins fishtailing or skidding?), I think the AWD with snow tires is the way to go.

So, if you want:
Max performance if mostly driven by a skilled driver: Go RWD with snows.
Max safety for a "regular" driver with only modest skills: AWD w/snows.

In either case, go with snow tires. AWD with all seasons gives no advantage over RWD with snows.

Cav, what winter tires you use?

[Wheelwright]

Originally Posted by Arbitrage10k

xDrive with all seasons < RWD with winters

Not always true. XDrive with all seasons may still be better than some "Performance Winter / Snow" winter tires with RWD. I learned that from experience because my Continentals Winter Sport TS810 sucked in the winter despite superior "magazine" ratings. To get real benefits of winter tires you must go with "Studless Ice & Snow" category. Of course this means handling will be mediocre to terrible.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

Not always true. XDrive with all seasons may still be better than some "Performance Winter / Snow" winter tires with RWD. I learned that from experience because my Continentals Winter Sport TS810 sucked in the winter despite superior "magazine" ratings. To get real benefits of winter tires you must go with "Studless Ice & Snow" category. Of course this means handling will be mediocre to terrible.

Some tires are better or worse than others, but I ran my performance winters with RWD in 3-4" of snow and ice and had no issues other than general stability getting squirrley above 30-40mph. And their performance in the dry was well beyond what most people expect of their tires. I would drive like a hooligan in the dry and they would still provide more grip than people would need in normal driving conditions.

Ultimately it's about traction and friction.

Under braking, AWD does nothing for you. So if you're driving and have to panic stop to avoid sliding into something - snow tires will always save you over AWD - and that IMO is the most dangerous part about driving in the snow.

If you live in a very hilly area where your back tires could get stuck on a patch of ice and you need to climb out, then yes AWD is going to help you. I've had maybe 1 experience where I got stuck on ice going up an exit ramp and slid a bit but eventually the rears hooked up and got me going. There were dozens of cars all on all season tires that were literally trapped, even FWD cars which usually have the advantage over RWD in snow/icy conditions.

Either way this horse has been beaten to death.

If it was my wife, I would get X drive and snow tires. My wife hit someone last year in the snow in her truck because even with AWD she didn't leave enough braking room and slid into someone in the icy conditions.

Either that or just get a new wife that can drive better.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Cav, what winter tires you use?

Honestly I don't know off the top of my head, but they're runflats (which I like for winter). I got them from the dealer when I got the car - They had a set already mounted that a previous 1er buyer ordered and never took delivery of, so after 6 months of collecting dust, my CA offered them to me for what I considered to be a good deal for 4 runflat snow tires mounted on OEM 264's.
So what was the default BMW runflat snow tire in 2012?

I'll check tonight for a better answer though.
They are going to get replaced with some winter perfs when they wear out, but for now I am content with them, even though there is a noticeable loss of performance on dry pavement.

[RedRocketM2]

Looking forward to trying my new m235i xDrive and seeing how it changes the handling bias and traits compared to the 2011 135i I traded in

[bman6074]

Originally Posted by williewonkerz

OMG, I LOVE THIS, TOTALLY STEALING BEST COMMENT EVER.

Haha glad you like. Its what I always tell people when they ask about me driving a rear wheel drive car in the winter. its the best analogy that just about everyone can relate too.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by williewonkerz

OMG, I LOVE THIS, TOTALLY STEALING BEST COMMENT EVER.

[RedRocketM2]

Boots or heels I would not say no to driving that hard and fast....LOL

[P-Bass]

Originally Posted by gulshan

Cause they don't like to be pushed around

nice save...

[williewonkerz]

Originally Posted by RedRocketM2

Boots or heels I would not say no to driving that hard and fast....LOL

This is quickly becoming best thread ever

[missxmelon]

Originally Posted by PSA955

nice save...

He didn't post the original comment. :P

[KG3356MT]

Thank you all for your replies. We were lucky enough to test drive both. She decided on the Xdrive (she felt the AWD handled the power better). It's a great car and i was suprised to like it so much (especially considering my daily is an M3). She is a good driver and a huge car enthusiast. We are planning to get a set of winter tires for extra traction as well. Once again thank you all for the constructive and intelligent replies.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by KG3356MT

Thank you all for your replies. We were lucky enough to test drive both. She decided on the Xdrive (she felt the AWD handled the power better). It's a great car and i was suprised to like it so much (especially considering my daily is an M3). She is a good driver and a huge car enthusiast. We are planning to get a set of winter tires for extra traction as well. Once again thank you all for the constructive and intelligent replies.

Congrats, welcome, best wishes and two more words....Blizzak WS80!!

[Tony_YYZ]

Originally Posted by KG3356MT

Thank you all for your replies. We were lucky enough to test drive both. She decided on the Xdrive (she felt the AWD handled the power better). It's a great car and i was suprised to like it so much (especially considering my daily is an M3). She is a good driver and a huge car enthusiast. We are planning to get a set of winter tires for extra traction as well. Once again thank you all for the constructive and intelligent replies.

Great to hear! I'm probably headed to the dealer this weekend to check out the pricing on the 2015's since BMW Canada hasn't updated their website with any information about the 2015 2-Series models. I'm looking to replace my car with an M235i and am strongly considering X-Drive.

I'm coming from FWD and the wife will drive the car once in a while too. I definitely don't trust her with RWD.


Also to everyone recommending Blizzaks.....while they are comprised of the of the best compounds for winter tires, I hope you all know that after about ~50% of the tread wears down it reveals a different compound which is about as effective as all seasons. Food for thought.

[RedRocketM2]

We just took delivery of a 2015 xDrive and my wife and I love the car!!! I have always had AWD cars and SUV's so driving our old 135I even with snows always felt less then confidence inspiring. Considering our wonderful winters in Ontario xDrive is the way to go!

[Tony_YYZ]

^looks great! Any pics of the rears?

Start a thread in the Photos/Videos subforum. I'm sure people will be interested to see the performance edition.

[RedRocketM2]

I will take a bunch of photos this weekend and load them up.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Tony_YYZ

Also to everyone recommending Blizzaks.....while they are comprised of the of the best compounds for winter tires, I hope you all know that after about ~50% of the tread wears down it reveals a different compound which is about as effective as all seasons. Food for thought.

Here is Tire Rack's experience....YMMV...but notice the base is a standard winter compound, not all season compound.

How Long Will Blizzak Winter / Snow Tires Last?

The Blizzak WS-tires’ Multicell tread compound comprises the top 55 percent of the tires' tread depth with a standard winter tread compound comprising the remaining 45 percent. When Blizzaks are approximately 50 percent worn, their "snow platform" tread depth indicators "connect" selected shoulder tread blocks to indicate that the Multicell tread compound is almost worn out, and that the enhanced snow and ice performance is about to end.

We have personal experience on a wide range of vehicles from sports cars to SUVs. Our experience, and that of our customers, indicates that Blizzak winter / snow tires will typically provide 12,000 to 15,000 miles of winter service before wearing out their Multicell tread compound. Therefore, Blizzaks are providing an estimated three to four winter seasons of wear from their Multicell tread compound for the driver who drives an average total of 15,000 miles per year (with 3,000 to 4,000 winter miles per year).

Blizzak winter / snow tires are not recommended to be reinstalled when their tread depth has worn down to the "snow platform" tread depth indicators before the start of the winter season.

[Tony_YYZ]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Here is Tire Rack's experience....YMMV...but notice the base is a standard winter compound, not all season compound.

How Long Will Blizzak Winter / Snow Tires Last?

The Blizzak WS-tires’ Multicell tread compound comprises the top 55 percent of the tires' tread depth with a standard winter tread compound comprising the remaining 45 percent. When Blizzaks are approximately 50 percent worn, their "snow platform" tread depth indicators "connect" selected shoulder tread blocks to indicate that the Multicell tread compound is almost worn out, and that the enhanced snow and ice performance is about to end.

We have personal experience on a wide range of vehicles from sports cars to SUVs. Our experience, and that of our customers, indicates that Blizzak winter / snow tires will typically provide 12,000 to 15,000 miles of winter service before wearing out their Multicell tread compound. Therefore, Blizzaks are providing an estimated three to four winter seasons of wear from their Multicell tread compound for the driver who drives an average total of 15,000 miles per year (with 3,000 to 4,000 winter miles per year).

Blizzak winter / snow tires are not recommended to be reinstalled when their tread depth has worn down to the "snow platform" tread depth indicators before the start of the winter season.

Thanks for the snippit!

Also, yeah I said it's about as effective as all seasons, which is what I've heard from users of the tires.

[KG3356MT]

Originally Posted by RedRocketM2

We just took delivery of a 2015 xDrive and my wife and I love the car!!! I have always had AWD cars and SUV's so driving our old 135I even with snows always felt less then confidence inspiring. Considering our wonderful winters in Ontario xDrive is the way to go!

awesome. looks great. Enjoy.