[Pyewacket69]

Originally Posted by toph4242

Thank you so much for the feedback everyone! I really appreciate everyones opinion. I spoke with the Turner people a little just because I want to get a better sense of everything I am considering before I decide, and the way they describe their product is that it can be taken on and off VERY easily and leaves no trace behind, and they said I could do this before eevery dealer appointment myself. Does this sound legit, or are they just selling me on the product?

I have been doing a lot of research on Turner, and they seem to have an amazing track record with engines, so I dont feel like this is a "second rate" brand or one of those "other guys" that was mentioned... plus they have their headquarters just north of Boston, so I like the idea of having the company in my back yard if I need help or have questions on it...

Having said that, I still don't know about the warranty issue, its important to me...

I guess the real question is, how many people have problems directly associated with these Mods?? should I just forget the whole thing?
Is this something that is even worth the headache? What are peoples feelings on that?

Personally, with everything tracked and monitored in a modern BMW, I'd be reluctant to take the phrase "BMW can't detect this was ever in place once you remove it" very seriously.

There's quite a bit of data stored in these cars, and while the tech guys at BMW's support level might not be able to detect a particular brand of tune previously installed, then removed, there's certainly lots of circumstantial evidence left behind that they CAN detect.

One should always anticipate the possibility of having to pay out-of-pocket for damages incurred due to aggressively tuning their vehicle.

If it never occurs, then great... It all depends upon ones "risks tolerance" level...

[BLK235iNJ]

Nicely put! I'm in the software space and to me it sounds ridiculous when vendors state that it's not traceable. I recently came across a vendor marketing an ECU flash as undetectable. How is that possible?? You overwrite the ECU schematics and that's undetectable. Vendors somewhat lose credibility with me when they advertise this way. But that's just me I'm sure plenty of folks out there appreciate the cost effective mods.

Originally Posted by Pyewacket69

Personally, with everything tracked and monitored in a modern BMW, I'd be reluctant to take the phrase "BMW can't detect this was ever in place once you remove it" very seriously.

There's quite a bit of data stored in these cars, and while the tech guys at BMW's support level might not be able to detect a particular brand of tune previously installed, then removed, there's certainly lots of circumstantial evidence left behind that they CAN detect.

One should always anticipate the possibility of having to pay out-of-pocket for damages incurred due to aggressively tuning their vehicle.

If it never occurs, the great... It all depends upon ones "risks tolerance" level...

[jtzako]

ECU's have a 'stamp' in them that gets updated when anything is changed (tuned) so even if the tune itself isnt detectable, the fact that the ECU was changed will be. If the current stamp doesnt match what is in BMW's computer for your car they can see it. Whether they would see that and use it to deny a warranty claim is another issue altogether.

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by jtzako

ECU's have a 'stamp' in them that gets updated when anything is changed (tuned) so even if the tune itself isnt detectable, the fact that the ECU was changed will be. If the current stamp doesnt match what is in BMW's computer for your car they can see it. Whether they would see that and use it to deny a warranty claim is another issue altogether.

That's why they bench flash it to bypass the "stamp", rather than flashing through the OBD

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Originally Posted by Luminous

That's why they bench flash it to bypass the "stamp", rather than flashing through the OBD

Look, while the likelihood of you blowing up your engine from any of these tunes is really quite low, in the event that something like this does happen, either via BMWs own fault, or turbos kick the bucket, if BMW of NA/Corporate gets involved, I am willing to bet if they dig enough, you can find elements of tampering.

Even with the BT tool, and clear "shadow" codes, from my understanding, there are codes that even the dealers cannot see, but NA, and Corporate is able to. Which in my opinion, makes sense. You can find all sorts data on a hard drive, even after it is cleared.

Now the real question is, how likely is something like this? Well, I would say not very at all. Maybe less than 1 % chance, but the risk is there.

Now the question comes down to convenience, and peace of mind. As to how one should proceed from that point, really depends on the person. If I had lived in an area, where there were no Dinan dealers, or it was very far away. I would most likely not consider them most likely, and would probably just chance it with another tuner.

However, my dealer is a Dinan dealer as well, so for me it is just a price difference that goes against Dinan, and in all honesty, while it is quite a bit more expensive, $1000 difference is not that big of a deal. If you are ok with spending $1000+ on wheels, or 50k on the car, I don't get why suddenly get cheap on the software.

[Pyewacket69]

I dunno... I've seen folks buy a $60K+ vehicle and then scrimp on gas by running regular, when hi-octane is clearly called for.

A few months back I was having a tire repaired at Discount Tire and a guy drove up in a late model Porsche Cayenne and asked the salesman for the least expensive set of tires for it.

Folks can be funny sometimes... Go figure...

[SteveInfante]

Originally Posted by Pyewacket69

I dunno... I've seen folks buy a $60K+ vehicle and then scrimp on gas by running regular, when hi-octane is clearly called for.

A few months back I was having a tire repaired at Discount Tire and a guy drove up in a late model Porsche Cayenne and asked the salesman for the least expensive set of tires for it.

Folks can be funny sometimes... Go figure...

That's like giving someone a bandaid after open heart surgery.