[ehosca]

noob question: does using BimmerCode void your warranty?

[H2O_Doc]

Originally Posted by ehosca

noob question: does using BimmerCode void your warranty?

No

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by ehosca

noob question: does using BimmerCode void your warranty?

The answer is, it depends. Google and read about the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. In short, if you code feature A in some manner other than the OEM condition and something fails related to feature A, and BMW knows that you made an unauthorized alteration, they may exclude that repair from warranty. However, if feature Z fails, totally unrelated to the modification, they may not exclude that from warranty.

[ehosca]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

The answer is, it depends. Google and read about the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. In short, if you code feature A in some manner other than the OEM condition and something fails related to feature A, and BMW knows that you made an unauthorized alteration, they may exclude that repair from warranty. However, if feature Z fails, totally unrelated to the modification, they may not exclude that from warranty.

i was planning to disable Active Sound using BimmerCode + ODBLink CX for a quieter cabin and better sound for music...

[swc5150]

I would think disabling active sound would be fine, but I'm not a lawyer.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by swc5150

I would think disabling active sound would be fine, but I'm not a lawyer.

Should be a high confidence/low risk modification.

[RoundelM3]

I've coded all my BMWs since 2008 - NEVER had a problem with warranty or service. Turning a feature on or off or changing a value (like the number of turn-signal blinks when you partially-move the lever) does not qualify as "modifying". I've coded ASD off in my M3 and 228i - and even changed the "ding" sound to that of Rolls-Royce (there are several choices).

[TrboMike]

The real answer is: the car OWNER will tell you the law says any modification has to be proven to directly have caused a warranty issue before the dealer can deny doing the fix. The DEALER will tell you "the car's computer has been tampered with therefor anything the car computer controls is not longer under warranty". The MANUFACTURER will tell you "if that one dealer refuses to do warranty work you can #1 go to another dealer and see if they will do the work, #2 have a BMW regional rep review the case #3 take the dealer to court #4 take the manufacturer (BMW) to court.

Who is right? Everybody.

If you put on a free flowing muffler, we as car owners know that cant blow an engine. But if your engine blows up and you altered the muffler, the dealer can now say you changed something that effects the exhaust flow which can cause engine damage. And now its up to a court to decide if they pay for a new motor or you pay for a new motor.

Its a gray area where if they refuse to fix your car, you're stuck going to court to try and get them to pay and its usually not worth it.

Some dealers WANT the warranty work, or WANT to be known as a mod-friendly dealer to get more customers, and will fix your car. Another dealer with the same car same problem will flag your car in the BMW computer (so all dealers now see it) as modified as refuse to fix it.

So yes there is a law saying aftermarket parts have to be proven to have caused a problem for the dealer and/or manufacturer to deny warranty work, but will that save you if you bring your car in and they refuse to fix the problem? Probably not.

There is post here I remember reading last year where I guy brings his car in for something like oil change and the service manager parks his car and sees his mirrors fold in when he locked it, and tells the car owner "I know a 2 series doesnt do that you modified the software I have to flag you in the computer for a modified car" or something.

Bottom line if you code your car, and the dealer finds out (if you cant decode before bringing it in etc), there is a chance it can effect your future warranty work. No matter what any law says. Or you can fight it out in court.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by TrboMike

The real answer is: the car OWNER will tell you the law says any modification has to be proven to directly have caused a warranty issue before the dealer can deny doing the fix. The DEALER will tell you "the car's computer has been tampered with therefor anything the car computer controls is not longer under warranty". The MANUFACTURER will tell you "if that one dealer refuses to do warranty work you can #1 go to another dealer and see if they will do the work, #2 have a BMW regional rep review the case #3 take the dealer to court #4 take the manufacturer (BMW) to court.

Who is right? Everybody.

If you put on a free flowing muffler, we as car owners know that cant blow an engine. But if your engine blows up and you altered the muffler, the dealer can now say you changed something that effects the exhaust flow which can cause engine damage. And now its up to a court to decide if they pay for a new motor or you pay for a new motor.

Its a gray area where if they refuse to fix your car, you're stuck going to court to try and get them to pay and its usually not worth it.

Some dealers WANT the warranty work, or WANT to be known as a mod-friendly dealer to get more customers, and will fix your car. Another dealer with the same car same problem will flag your car in the BMW computer (so all dealers now see it) as modified as refuse to fix it.

So yes there is a law saying aftermarket parts have to be proven to have caused a problem for the dealer and/or manufacturer to deny warranty work, but will that save you if you bring your car in and they refuse to fix the problem? Probably not.

There is post here I remember reading last year where I guy brings his car in for something like oil change and the service manager parks his car and sees his mirrors fold in when he locked it, and tells the car owner "I know a 2 series doesnt do that you modified the software I have to flag you in the computer for a modified car" or something.

Bottom line if you code your car, and the dealer finds out (if you cant decode before bringing it in etc), there is a chance it can effect your future warranty work. No matter what any law says. Or you can fight it out in court.

Excellent and realistic analysis!

[H2O_Doc]

There is a chasm between the hypothetical and real world practice here. I suppose if you're afraid of the very low probability events that have a highly likely positive legal resolution, then it's fair that nothing every should be modified. Of course, anyone that risk averse should probably never fart nor drive.

[TrboMike]

That chasm is just a crack. Research what is happening in the real world: Google how many people have warranty work denied because of a car modification.

If the OP is asking "can my warranty get denied" then I guess he IS risk averse and needs info other than "there is a law saying you cant be denied".

[msej449]

I'm more sympathetic with the manufacturer's position than many because I worked for a manufacturer of IT systems. We used to have this eternal argument with customers about putting 3rd-party memory into our servers. Our memory cost 3x what the exact same chips cost on the open market. But I'd been to our factories where 1. we rejected a far higher % of chips than a reseller did 2. we put chips on the system boards and put the whole board through severe heat and cold and power cycles that often threw up further faults and 3. did the same with the chips on the boards, in the server. Again, this would throw up all sorts of interaction faults. Given all this, we would only quite MTBFs for systems that were all ours, and also, our service teams simply weren't interested in wasting time doing field diagnostics to hunt-down faults due to alien components. So that was why we wouldn't service systems with 3rd-party stuff in them. Some customers still thought that it was just a rip-off. Some went elsewhere for servicing then found that any savings were eaten-up by higher failure rates and call-out costs.

As a software engineer, there's no way I'm ever fiddling with firmware. For me, this is like patching the BIOS on my PC. Or the runtime libraries in the OS. It might work. No doubt some people get away with it. No doubt there are some changes which are highly reliable and very unlikely to cause issues. I appreciate that there is a difference between switching parameters that are designed to be switched (e.g. to fold mirrors or not) versus over-writing target code or target data.

But I've dealt with enough over-confident apps guys and coders who have done a hack and come back with a 'Wow! Whod've thought that would happen?' when it all goes wrong, and left us in a mess, to put me off re-coding my car.

[H2O_Doc]

Originally Posted by TrboMike

That chasm is just a crack. Research what is happening in the real world: Google how many people have warranty work denied because of a car modification.

If the OP is asking "can my warranty get denied" then I guess he IS risk averse and needs info other than "there is a law saying you cant be denied".

In fairness, a google survey wouldn't represent the likelihood of a denial. It would lead to an overestimation of the proportion of claims denied.

[TrboMike]

So in your "real world" you still want to tell the OP that its "hypothetical" and "very low probability" that his 2020 with 3 years of warranty wont get flagged as having tampered software which could cause him warranty denial?

Then we disagree.

I ask the OP to either search this forum or do a general google search of the many people who have done a modification and the dealer used it as an excuse to deny warranty work. Sometimes the person gets around it by pleading to the regional rep of the manufacturer or going to another dealer, but a lot of times they're stuck with a broken car and no warranty claim.

Lots of people mod their cars while still under warranty. But it is a risk you take, many people have been burned in the past. Just letting the OP know so he can decide his own situation.

[H2O_Doc]

To be clear, I'm not trying to be pissy or disrespectful. I'm just trying to bring my understanding of data, law, actual practice etc. to the open question. A tune is one thing, BimmerCode is another. Dealerships depend on warranty work. Now, they do have to (typically) get authorization from the manufacturer to do that work, but those service representatives in my experience understand the law pretty well. What can get a person jacked up is when the dealership makes an assumption of what the manufacturer would decide, but that's not a rough remedy.

I have had warranty work done on my powertrain and my headunit after having been modified by BimmerCode. The dealership gave zero shits about that.

Clearly, it is not impossible that a claim is denied for some inappropriate reason including BimmerCode. I think it is unlikely to get a denial because of BimmerCode and the black letter law is clear such a denial is unsupportable. The point that a consumer might not want to take legal action and therefore the previous point might be moot in a practical sense is fair.

[Dante1]

Sorry to open an old thread but I just got a phone call from my dealership and they told me that there was "unauthorized coding" and that the VIN is flagged. The service manager said that if this happens again, they will not fix the head unit. Total Crap! The car is literally controlled by a computer, why not give people the option to enable or disable features?

[morphomeman]

Originally Posted by Dante1

The car is literally controlled by a computer, why not give people the option to enable or disable features?

Whaaaat? The warranty does not permit unauthorized modifications to the vehicle, period. The fact that Bimmercode modifications are to the computer code is totally irrelevant.
I will never understand people who mod their cars and then go crying to the dealer when they blow up.

[Kernel Kurtz]

Originally Posted by msej449

I appreciate that there is a difference between switching parameters that are designed to be switched (e.g. to fold mirrors or not) versus over-writing target code or target data.

I think this sums it up well. If you are changing variables that are intentionally designed to be easily changeable, you are probably OK.

ASD, mirrors, number of blinks, start/stop, that sort of thing is intended to be customized. Fuel/air maps not so much.

[freakystyly]

If you mod the module and the module fails, who is to blame? They're just covering butts. They are very much "brickable" if a novice starts changing things that shouldn't be changed.