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      03-22-2013, 12:53 PM   #45
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I am hoping that BMW makes more than about 5 of the M2, which is what it seemed like with the 1M. It was hard to find one, at least for me here in the US.

It's really funny that they say the 1M was the "affordable M car, designed to get people exposed to the M brand" and then they make enough cars that only those willing to pay the huge markup can get one.

We shall see...
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      03-22-2013, 02:30 PM   #46
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I like this render better.
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      03-22-2013, 02:32 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley71 View Post
Have you seen pictures of people in the back seat of the CLA? Saw a video last night with a 5' 8" guy squeezing into the backseat and complaining about headroom! Let me repeat that 5' 8" complaining about head room, not to mention legroom, in the backseat.

I've grown to think of it as an attractive car, the CLA, but it can't be seen as a car for people who want to have comfortable backseat passengers. BMW, with the GT series is definitely catering to backseat passengers.

The two products have totally different objectives, I don't see the comparison.

have you ever sat in the back seat of a 1 series?
not exactly spacious
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      03-22-2013, 02:36 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55 cent

I like this render better.
Completely agree.
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      03-22-2013, 02:37 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
By the time we see an M2, the N20 will likely we well on its way to being replaced by an I4 B48 that shares 70% of its parts with the B38.

It does not mean the M2 will get an S48 instead of an S20 (if it is indeed going to get a 4 cylinder at all), but don't bet against it.
, but they did drop the ball a bit by not having a four door 1 or 2 ready sooner.
Good point, but isn't the N20 already part of the same modular family that the B38 is in? The N20 is still pretty much brand new. I would say if a M2 prototype is seen within the next year and a half, it is probably N20 based. After that, its anyones guess. Although unlikely because of cost issues, another possibility is a hack job like they did on the S14. Bear in mind all of this is 100% speculation.
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      03-22-2013, 02:39 PM   #50
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My concern is: given the same HP target and the same technology, wouldn't the 4 cylinder always have more turbo lag than a 6 cylinder?

Also, do we expect the 2er GC non M to be released after the M2 coupe?
And then get the M2 GC after that still?
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      03-22-2013, 03:46 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
Good point, but isn't the N20 already part of the same modular family that the B38 is in?
No, the N20 is the last engine (not including M engines) to debut that won't be part of the new unified inline architecture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Also, do we expect the 2er GC non M to be released after the M2 coupe?
And then get the M2 GC after that still?
The 2 Series Gran Coupe will most likely hit the market before the M2 does in any form.
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      03-22-2013, 03:54 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
My concern is: given the same HP target and the same technology, wouldn't the 4 cylinder always have more turbo lag than a 6 cylinder?
It depends on how they add the power. If they do it purely through the turbos, then added lag is a possibility. I have driven a N20 car, and trust me I had it in 8th gear and stomped the throttle trying to find lag. I just really couldn't. Anyway, the turbo lag couldn't be worse than the early electronic throttle lag that we have in our E46's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
No, the N20 is the last engine (not including M engines) to debut that won't be part of the new unified inline architecture.
.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up.
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      03-22-2013, 04:22 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley71 View Post
Have you seen pictures of people in the back seat of the CLA? Saw a video last night with a 5' 8" guy squeezing into the backseat and complaining about headroom! Let me repeat that 5' 8" complaining about head room, not to mention legroom, in the backseat.

I've grown to think of it as an attractive car, the CLA, but it can't be seen as a car for people who want to have comfortable backseat passengers. BMW, with the GT series is definitely catering to backseat passengers.

The two products have totally different objectives, I don't see the comparison.

If he's 5'8", the front seats are going to give people problems...
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      03-22-2013, 09:29 PM   #54
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Make it look like this, make an inline 6 available, rwd, perform like an e46 M3 and daily driving suitable like a e46 ZHP. Is that so much to ask for ?
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      03-23-2013, 01:43 AM   #55
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That picture was for a render of a 1 series sedan, not a gran coupe model. It's very obvious from the roofline.
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      03-23-2013, 04:39 AM   #56
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I truly miss the days when selections are simple. But selections are also good! Oh the irony.

Is BMW just re-using the long wheel base platform from the China market for the 6 series grand coupe? Or vice versa? Larger volume production with shared parts are always good. Less problem and improvements needed but it's a little over the hill if you ask me.

Unless BMW has some super new production planning system that is very efficient. I think it's gonna be a disaster in the long run. After all man still does a lot of wiring and assembly. Parts can be mistaken and bespoke parts would mean extra cost for the customers.
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      03-23-2013, 05:28 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
That picture was for a render of a 1 series sedan, not a gran coupe model. It's very obvious from the roofline.
So there's a 1 series sedan and there's a 2 series grand coupe. Both will have 4 doors and both will be designated in the sport compact sedan segment..BMW has one of the most confusing production lines.My head hurts, that's about the only thing that's obvious.
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      03-23-2013, 09:24 AM   #58
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The 1er Sedan will be based upon the BMW compact series matrix shared with the MINI. It is not based on the F20. 2er Gran Coupe will be based on the imminent BMW 2er.

The idea follows the larger car matrix which is modular that existing concepts can be spun off using a central piece which can then be lengthened or shortened with added modular parts to accommodate each vehicle.
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      03-23-2013, 11:58 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miko_10 View Post
BMW has one of the most confusing production lines.
I have to disagree. I find BMWs naming system extremely intuitive. And now that they're breaking off the coupes into the 2 and 4 series, the whole range follows the same conventions. BMW has the most predictability in their nomenclature of any manufacturer, and once the rest of the known Fxx products in the pipeline arrive, they'll have the most complete model lineup as well.
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      03-23-2013, 12:18 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The 1er Sedan will be based upon the BMW compact series matrix shared with the MINI. It is not based on the F20. 2er Gran Coupe will be based on the imminent BMW 2er.

The idea follows the larger car matrix which is modular that existing concepts can be spun off using a central piece which can then be lengthened or shortened with added modular parts to accommodate each vehicle.
If the end goal for BMW is to let consumers customize all car dimensions then I'm all for it. In my eyes they just seem to be in flux with the whole naming and numbering system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I have to disagree. I find BMWs naming system extremely intuitive. And now that they're breaking off the coupes into the 2 and 4 series, the whole range follows the same conventions. BMW has the most predictability in their nomenclature of any manufacturer, and once the rest of the known Fxx products in the pipeline arrive, they'll have the most complete model lineup as well.
I'll agree to disagree, how can you just redefine what is considered a coupe and a sedan in the same line up. To me a coupe will always be 2 doors and a sedan will always be 4 doors. Calling a 4 door sedan a 2 door grand coupe just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It just makes it harder to figure out what to call the next car that I want to purchase.
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      03-23-2013, 03:27 PM   #61
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So basically there won't be a 1er sedan based on the F20. When they make that car, it will be FWD and my guess is that it won't come to the US.

If you want a compact 4 door with RWD, then it's the 2er GC

Fine by me !!
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      03-23-2013, 03:33 PM   #62
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I agree. Very intuitive.
It's just that the GT models are redundant and useless, other than that very complete and cool lineup it's shaping up to be. I for one love the idea of the GC models, best of all worlds in one vehicle and the 2er GC should be priced within reach !
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      03-23-2013, 05:19 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miko_10 View Post
...how can you just redefine what is considered a coupe and a sedan in the same line up. (...) Calling a 4 door sedan a 2 door grand coupe just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
BMW was not the first to attach the coupe name to a four door car. That was their rival Mercedes. All they have done is answered with a competing product which is no less than we should expect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
So basically there won't be a 1er sedan based on the F20. When they make that car, it will be FWD...
Yes.

Quote:
...and my guess is that it won't come to the US.
Oh I think it will come to the US for sure. In fact, it's existence can probably be attributed in large part to the US market.
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      03-23-2013, 07:32 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55 cent View Post

I like this render better.
I hope it looks like this rendering or I will be buying a 3 series sedan.
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      03-23-2013, 08:45 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
BMW was not the first to attach the coupe name to a four door car. That was their rival Mercedes. All they have done is answered with a competing product which is no less than we should expect.



Yes.



Oh I think it will come to the US for sure. In fact, it's existence can probably be attributed in large part to the US market.
The German boss of BMW North America Ludwig Willisch has asked for the production variant of the Active Tourer and other FWD based BMWs including the similar sized FAST crossover as he believes he can market them to existing BMW customers as the "2nd BMW" in a mandatory BMW household.

And also offer a new concept in gaining new customers to the BMW brand positioning the Active Tourer as an exciting lifestyle vehicle. This is an advantage because Mercedes do not offer the B-Klasse even though their NA division is crying out for it.

A four door 1er will follow but so will the 2er Gran Coupe.
The North American debut of the Active Tourer Concept will be a great deal for BMW North America because the public will give the defining decision when it will be displayed at New York next week.

It's already arrived straight from Geneva.
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      03-25-2013, 11:09 AM   #66
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[QUOTE=mkoesel;13687323]... the new unified inline architecture...



QUOTE]

Will all of the engines, even M ones, necessarily have the 0.5ltr./cyl displacement characteristic of the new architecture or can we expect, for example, a 2.2ltrs. 4 in the M2ers and a 3.3ltrs. 6 in the M3ers(equating to 0.55ltr/cyl.) Is it merely coincidental that these displacement figures have been "thrown around" on this board?
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