[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Yes, you're right that there is some irony to my decision. A big part of my decision to go with the BMW is based on the refinement of the car - at a time when the Mustang has never been more refined. And yes, I do agree that the M235i is bland compared to the sexy design of the new Mustang.

I'm just ready for a change, it's as simple as that. As far as Mustangs, I've been there and done that. Three times no less. Look at these pics of my current Mustang parked next to the new one. Is the new one that much better looking? Is it any better looking?

No doubt that Mustangs draw attention. Especially yellow ones, for better or worse. Even after 10 years, I literally can't park anywhere without getting a compliment. The attention is nice, I'm not going to deny that. But that's the general public. When I take it to track day events where everyone is a knowledgeable car enthusiast, the bright yellow Mustang is just meh.

At this point in my life, a conservative car is okay. Appropriate even. The enjoyment's going to come in driving it, as opposed to admiring it.

Yes, the new one is much better looking. It's as if Ford cloned the 4 series...my biased, subjective opinion of course.

[wjones14]

Well the decision is official - I placed my order today. So excited to finally be in a BMW! Here's the order:

2015 M235i 6-speed manual
Alpine White
Brushed Aluminum Trim
Coral Red Dakota Leather
Technology Package
Driver Assistance Package
Black Kidney Grills
M Performance Side sill decals

The woman handling my order said she's expecting a Feb 2015 allocation and Apr 2015 delivery.

[G-Mann]

Tough decision, both cars have their pros but I think you made the better choice.

Nice build, congratulations!!!

[M235ixDriveMP]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Well the decision is official - I placed my order today. So excited to finally be in a BMW! Here's the order:

2015 M235i 6-speed manual
Alpine White
Brushed Aluminum Trim
Coral Red Dakota Leather
Technology Package
Driver Assistance Package
Black Kidney Grills
M Performance Side sill decals

The woman handling my order said she's expecting a Feb 2015 allocation and Apr 2015 delivery.

Congrats

[whoosh]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Well the decision is official - I placed my order today. So excited to finally be in a BMW! Here's the order:

2015 M235i 6-speed manual
Alpine White
Brushed Aluminum Trim
Coral Red Dakota Leather
Technology Package
Driver Assistance Package
Black Kidney Grills
M Performance Side sill decals

The woman handling my order said she's expecting a Feb 2015 allocation and Apr 2015 delivery.

Congrats, excellent spec. You'll love AW / Coral.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Well the decision is official - I placed my order today. So excited to finally be in a BMW! Here's the order:

2015 M235i 6-speed manual
Alpine White
Brushed Aluminum Trim
Coral Red Dakota Leather
Technology Package
Driver Assistance Package
Black Kidney Grills
M Performance Side sill decals

The woman handling my order said she's expecting a Feb 2015 allocation and Apr 2015 delivery.

You'll have to share this with the M6G crowd.

I'm glad for you bud. Looks like we went down different paths.

[durangodoug]

Hey wjones14 I was in your position a couple months ago. I loved what the Mustang offered for the price, but I never stopped smiling after test driving the M235. This was my first new car ever so I really thought a BMW was going to cost too much, but after doing the research I found out that a lot of cars (Mustangs included) are in the price range of the 2. I appreciate the Mustang, and really love the new body style of the 2015, but I gotta admit the BMW makes me feel a bit more classy. It seems like you've done enough research to lose all your hair but I think you'll be happy with your choice.

Not to jack the thread but I did want to say hello and thank you to everybody on the forum. I jumped around from forum to forum on bimmerpost when I was searching for my car and really appreciate all the opinions and suggestions you guys make everyday. I've been watching the threads and comments for almost a year now but never said anything. You guys are great, I'm glad I found a good car along with a great community.

[Iceman51sn]

Originally Posted by durangodoug

Not to jack the thread but I did want to say hello and thank you to everybody on the forum. I jumped around from forum to forum on bimmerpost when I was searching for my car and really appreciate all the opinions and suggestions you guys make everyday. I've been watching the threads and comments for almost a year now but never said anything. You guys are great, I'm glad I found a good car along with a great community.

This!

Funny as I was also thinking about the mustang. After test driving both the M235 just seemed like the better fit and was a lot more fun!

[jskrilla]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Well the decision is official - I placed my order today. So excited to finally be in a BMW! Here's the order:

2015 M235i 6-speed manual
Alpine White
Brushed Aluminum Trim
Coral Red Dakota Leather
Technology Package
Driver Assistance Package
Black Kidney Grills
M Performance Side sill decals

The woman handling my order said she's expecting a Feb 2015 allocation and Apr 2015 delivery.

Congrats you won't be disappointed!!!!

[persianbmw91]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

You'll have to share this with the M6G crowd.

I'm glad for you bud. Looks like we went down different paths.

hows it compare from the refinement of the 335 going to the GT. i drove m235 and gt, I was blown away and think the gt was the better car. But their performance stats are pretty similar despite the 100 hp difference. any complaints with the car? is the performance pack mandatory in your opinion? biggest draw is that the mustang with perf pack and recaros is 37 i think. M235i with leather and m diff is 50 k

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by persianbmw91

hows it compare from the refinement of the 335 going to the GT. i drove m235 and gt, I was blown away and think the gt was the better car. But their performance stats are pretty similar despite the 100 hp difference. any complaints with the car? is the performance pack mandatory in your opinion? biggest draw is that the mustang with perf pack and recaros is 37 i think. M235i with leather and m diff is 50 k

Their straightline stats are similar but That's where the similarities end. The M235i is a fantastic car with plenty of superior qualities. It's more practical and more refined. That wasn't my priority when I was shopping between the two; I spent M235i on a GT instead (44.7k before the additional dealer crap upon signing) because it was still refined but rougher around the edges in a way that's more fun IMO. The GT is a superior performance vehicle in stock form and with mods factored in for either car. I wanted a V8 with a solid starting chassis to build on. It hasn't a different character that's more about driving than being an all-in-one deal.

I wouldn't change anything about my purchasing decision but I still respect the 2er lineup.

The PP is mandatory. Absolutely need the torsen LSD; it hooks up everywhere. First or second gear WOT around a short bend results in pure traction. The car has very little understeer. The six piston calipers up front are fade free and ridiculously competent.

Complaints:
-sound system is average at best
-rear seating is subpar in terms of room
-trunk opening is less practical
-mileage is shit (15-18mpg mixed)
-size is only a concern for the first couple weeks as you transition

I have more fun cruising in this car and rowing through the gears than I ever did going all out in my 335i.

Also, you really have so many great sounding exhausts to pick from. My Corsa double-X pipe catback is arriving today. Here's what it'll sound like:

There's no way I couldn't pass up V8 noise. If you're considering an EB Mustang, I'd say forget it. BMW does F/I better by a long shot. The 228i is a better car than the EB from my experience.

[n0va]

I literally went through this guys exact same conundrum, after owning previous mustangs, and having mostly had American muscle cars, I was torn between the new '15 mustand and the new m235i, needless to say after driving both, and taking costs in to consideration, I decided on the latter. I can honestly say I made the correct decision, the bmw is definitely the way to go.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by n0va

I literally went through this guys exact same conundrum, after owning previous mustangs, and having mostly had American muscle cars, I was torn between the new '15 mustand and the new m235i, needless to say after driving both, and taking costs in to consideration, I decided on the latter. I can honestly say I made the correct decision, the bmw is definitely the way to go.

Can't go wrong either way. I wouldn't say there's a definitive better choice; it comes down to your preferences, although I realize that won't be a popular opinion on this forum.

Glad to hear you're enjoying your car!

[Lucky13]

MSN listed the 14 worst car redesigns this week and the Mustang, Audi Q7 and Mini Cooper made their list. Front end and too long rear quarter were the reasons for the Mustang, Q7 was it looks like a station wagon now and Mini was they uglyfied it by making it bigger and the design doesn't look as good with a bigger body.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

MSN listed the 14 worst car redesigns this week and the Mustang, Audi Q7 and Mini Cooper made their list. Front end and too long rear quarter were the reasons for the Mustang, Q7 was it looks like a station wagon now and Mini was they uglyfied it by making it bigger and the design doesn't look as good with a bigger body.

It was a promoted Motor Trend article. Guess who's been literally one of the only negative publicizers of the new Mustang?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

Their straightline stats are similar but That's where the similarities end. The M235i is a fantastic car with plenty of superior qualities. It's more practical and more refined. That wasn't my priority when I was shopping between the two; I spent M235i on a GT instead (44.7k before the additional dealer crap upon signing) because it was still refined but rougher around the edges in a way that's more fun IMO. The GT is a superior performance vehicle in stock form and with mods factored in for either car. I wanted a V8 with a solid starting chassis to build on. It hasn't a different character that's more about driving than being an all-in-one deal.

I wouldn't change anything about my purchasing decision but I still respect the 2er lineup.

The PP is mandatory. Absolutely need the torsen LSD; it hooks up everywhere. First or second gear WOT around a short bend results in pure traction. The car has very little understeer. The six piston calipers up front are fade free and ridiculously competent.

Complaints:
-sound system is average at best
-rear seating is subpar in terms of room
-trunk opening is less practical
-mileage is shit (15-18mpg mixed)
-size is only a concern for the first couple weeks as you transition

I have more fun cruising in this car and rowing through the gears than I ever did going all out in my 335i.

Also, you really have so many great sounding exhausts to pick from. My Corsa double-X pipe catback is arriving today. Here's what it'll sound like:

Congrats on your new Mustang GT, and very well stated. Corsas are great exhausts, and they sound good on the BMWs as well (but still not as nice and aggressive as in the GT, IMO.) Great choice! BTW, please post some pics of your GT if you don't mind.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

MSN listed the 14 worst car redesigns this week and the Mustang, Audi Q7 and Mini Cooper made their list. Front end and too long rear quarter were the reasons for the Mustang, Q7 was it looks like a station wagon now and Mini was they uglyfied it by making it bigger and the design doesn't look as good with a bigger body.

I'm picking up my M235i in 2 weeks and a day, and couldn't be more excited about it.

But I would totally disagree with MSN on this one...

IMO, the M235i is the better car in most aspects, and that's why I spent the extra thousands of dollars buying the BMW instead of the Mustang. But, if there is one aspect of the Mustang that is almost indisputably superior to the M235i, I would say it is in the looks department.

I can't believe that MSN is finding fault with the rear quarter styling of the Mustang. I test drove a 2015 GT, and one of the things that stood out to me was how cool and muscular the rear quarter looked, especially in the outside mirror view.

Seems like MSN is just looking for things to be critical about.

[Supernaut]

Originally Posted by wjones14

I'm picking up my M235i in 2 weeks and a day, and couldn't be more excited about it.

But I would totally disagree with MSN on this one...

IMO, the M235i is the better car in most aspects, and that's why I spent the extra thousands of dollars buying the BMW instead of the Mustang. But, if there is one aspect of the Mustang that is almost indisputably superior to the M235i, I would say it is in the looks department.

I can't believe that MSN is finding fault with the rear quarter styling of the Mustang. I test drove a 2015 GT, and one of the things that stood out to me was how cool and muscular the rear quarter looked, especially in the outside mirror view.

Seems like MSN is just looking for things to be critical about.

I agree. The new Stang is an eye catcher. It has some Aston Martinesque lines, but that does kill the rear seat room.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by Cal

Congrats on your new Mustang GT, and very well stated. Corsas are great exhausts, and they sound good on the BMWs as well (but still not as nice and aggressive as in the GT, IMO.) Great choice! BTW, please post some pics of your GT if you don't mind.

Thanks bud! I'm trying to find a place to install the exhaust myself tonight. She needs a good detailing. I've got a thread over in the gen. auto subforum here that I'll update with pics when I get a chance.

[Legal Bill]

Hi everyone. I'm a brand new member and this is my first post. I will be starting a new thread as soon as my status is upgraded. I am in the same boat as the original poster and so I thought I'd share the road test write ups I did in another car forum on this subject. Caution, this is VERY long.

2015 Mustang GT

The 2015 Mustang GT Premium with the Performance Package combines the top level of performance with the top level of luxury in the new Mustang line. Leather interior, in dash GPS, supplemental electronic gauges, power, heated and air conditioned seats, and a slew of other comfort features meet higher spring rates, controllable shocks, heavier rear sway bar, larger brakes, strut brace, 3.7 Torsen LSD, 19 inch wheels shod in summer Pirellis and other performance features. The combination falls short of the European benchmarks such as BMW and Audi. But if you are looking for a high level of performance with great styling, tons of bells and whistles, and a lower price than the European performance coupes, then the Mustang GT accomplishes the mission.

Styling is a matter of personal taste, of course, but unless you prefer a brick to a Bugatti you will agree Mustang styling is very attractive. Of the cars on my short list it is the homecoming queen, leaving the BMW, VW and Audi competing for a spot on the pep squad. But the homecoming queen can be difficult to live with and in this case the long sculpted proportions that give the Mustang its good looks also impact the driving experience. I notice it within the first 10 feet of the test drive. In contrast to my shorter, stubby BMW, the Mustang lets you know there are wheels behind you driving the vehicle and other wheels ahead of you doing the steering. My BMW makes you feel like part of the car. You're sitting on the drive wheels, and the wheels that steer are under your feet. You sense no part of the car in front of you, due in part to the nose of the car sloping down from the windshield. In contrast, the Mustang's style includes a long flat body line shooting away from the windshield. As a result, the front of the car is more visible from the driver's seat and the front wheels feel further away as you turn the steering wheel because, well, they are. This will take some getting used to.

Turning at relatively low speeds you can feel the differential working away at the problem of how to deliver power to the rear wheels. In fairness to the car, it was a cold wet day and snow was falling. Although the snow was not sticking to the road, the Pirellis were clearly out of their element, losing grip at low speed on turns and under half throttle openings. The Torsen was earning its keep, delivering power to both wheels when appropriate and then redirecting that power to one side or the other as needed. I did notice some wheel tramp on hard acceleration when I quickly "merged" into traffic to get on the highway on-ramp. Yes Skippy, this car does have power and my thoughts of holding out for the 500+hp GT 350 melted away with the gas I was burning in the 435 hp version of the engine.

The shifter throws are very short for an American muscle car and shorter than my BMW. Between the shifter and clutch take up (which is also shorter and faster than my BMW) I decided to shift in a deliberate fashion to avoid any drama. This is a test drive in the snow after all. I'd like to leave the dealership on good terms with the management. But caution side, clearly the manual is geared towards performance and shifts in daily traffic will not be as smooth as the those I make in the BMW. My wife is not with me in person on this test drive, but I feel her spirit with me. It is jerking back and forth in the passenger's seat when I accelerate, shift and brake and I feel it glaring at me while I practice at smoothing things out.

And yes, those brakes grab quickly. I'll have to moderate my brake foot pressure quite a bit if I buy this car. My foot has been trained for many decades to apply a certain amount of pressure to generate a certain amount of braking force. That training is getting in my way on this test drive. A light foot is needed and I mean very light. One needs only to rest their foot on the surface of the pedal and then think "go slower" and speed falls off at an amazing rate.

The driver's seat is a nice place to be and I extend the test drive onto some winding roads that only a few of us ever seem to use. I find that the turn-in is very quick, and I am using only the normal steering and chassis setting. Road noise is well isolated. But the rumble and burble of the V-8 comes through with no problem. On a long down hill straight I get into it in first and second enough to know that this will be the fastest car I have ever owned if I buy it.

I end the visit with a nice meeting with the sales manager. No high pressure but they want to know what I am thinking and I have nothing to hide since I am still cross shopping. They do nothing to try to make the sale and my young salesman tells me they are not discounting the Mustang GTs as they are selling well at sticker price. He may be right, but since I'm in no hurry we'll see what they do over the next couple of weeks.

2015 BMW M235i


The BMW M235i has an advantage over the other candidates for the next daily driver in so far as I love my current daily driver, a 2006 BMW 330i. But this could also be a disadvantage. Any aspect of the new car that is not as good as my old one will be a disappointment. There were not many disappointments. In fact, the only problem with this car is that the back seat is a bit difficult to get in and out of. This is the problem with a 2 door and I have to remind myself that I have someone in the back seat of my car less than 1% of the time. Most every other feature was equal to or better than my car, with the irrelevant exception of the automatic transmission that I would not order if I buy one of these cars. The car I am testing is an x-drive which seems to be the only version of the 235 that New England dealers order.

The exterior is very well proportioned. The demonstrator I drove was finished in white and I hope the proportions look as good in other colors. While the trunk line is short it is not as abrupt as the Audi S3. The cabin appears set back enough in relation to the hood and trunk to give the car the typical BMW sedan look of forward motion. The front view is excellent and the M treatment makes the car look much more aggressive than lesser BMWs. The wheels are a very attractive split spoke design that is really eye catching. The trunk is about the same as the Audi S3, but there is no space saver spare under the trunk floor. The car has run flats and I am not too crazy about run flats. The back seat folds down, but it does not have the small center pass through that I have in my current car. I like that little pass through, but it is not available in the M235. The front seats are familiar and supportive with more lateral support than my current car. Of course this car is equipped with every electronic do-dad imaginable so we have lots of buttons, screens and the idrive knob. I'm ignoring all of that because it will not be a part of any car I order.

This car has the keyless convenience package which is kind of ok. You can lock and unlock the car with the touch of your hand so long as the fob is in your pocket. Like my car the engine starts with the touch of a button. The engine is quiet, maybe a bit louder than mine. It seems to have a performance exhaust system on it and I'm a little unclear about whether this is standard or a BMW center add-on feature. The salesman explains how to put the thing into gear (hold the brake, squeeze that button, pull the stick back, let the stick go, you are now in drive) and I roll out of the dealer's lot onto yet another very busy street. This time when I hit the gas to merge into traffic we move and very quickly. Pretty much no noticeable turbo lag. But the automatic tranny does what automatic trannys do, requiring a certain number of RPMs to get going properly. For all their advancements and extra gears, they fall short of the DCGs in engagement and take-up. But the paddle shifters work well and the shifts are quick once under way. With eight forward speeds, one really doesn't keep track of what gear the car is in. If it feels to high, shift down. Too low, shift up. You never seem to run out of gears to shift into. While i want to test this car with the manual, there are none available. If I order the car with a manual, the first time i try it will be after I own it.

The car has four settings for ride, steering and transmission. Something like eco mode, comfort, sport and sport plus (nannies switched off). We are on the busy streets of Boston so track is as high as we go. In track the shifts are very fast and the tranny holds the gears much longer than I would have thought...maybe this tranny isn't all bad. The ride does get stiffer and you can feel the pot holes and other irregularities in the post-winter city streets. I can't really put the car into any fast corners. the best I can do is lag back from traffic and then hit the gas for 3 seconds until I catch up with the commuters. This car promotes hooliganism and I can dice in and out of lanes quickly and cleanly. So I do. I really want an open road, but alas I'm 200 years too late to find such a thing in Boston at 3:00 in the afternoon. In the comfort mode the suspension is very compliant and does a good job soaking up the bumps. The tranny still shifts pretty well in automatic mode even in the comfort setting. The car is programed to kill the engine when you stop and then restart when you take your foot off the brake to go again. I hate this feature. How can this be any good for the car? Let's crank the starter motor about 100 times every time you drive around town. Fortunately it can be turned off, but you must do so every time you drive the car.

The brakes are very predictable and not at all grabby like the Mustang (very) and, to a lesser extent, the Audi. I guess I'm just used to BMW brake systems. We pull back into the crowded dealer parking lot and he asks me to swing into a tight space with no room to maneuver. I place it into the spot on one try and the proportions are very much the same as my current car.

This car seems to be the clear favorite. It is faster and a bit better balanced than my car but with the same general feel. I'm at home right away. The big hurdle is the price tag. Even when I cut it down to the few options I want, the price creeps up over $47K. It seems like a lot for a small sports coupe with 320 hp. I'll sleep on this one for a bit and take some drives in one or two other potential daily drivers.

[bladeomatic]

Edmunds.com says this:

"Well, okay, you might like an extra set of doors, which brings the 2015 Mercedes-Benz CLA-Class and the 2015 Audi A3 and S3 into play. Connoisseurs tend to prefer BMW's rear-wheel-drive dynamics, but these front-drive-based alternatives handle very well in their own right, and their four-door designs make them more versatile. We also recommend the all-new 2015 Ford Mustang, as its newfound refinement makes it a more plausible BMW substitute than ever before. But if you're looking for all-around excellence, it's tough to avoid the conclusion that the 2015 BMW 2 Series is the car to beat."

[wjones14]

Nice, detailed review, Legal Bill!

One thing about the Mustang price - hard to believe the dealer you went to would not budge from MSRP. Try truecar.com. I just checked it out in my area, and the local sales are averaging 7.5% below MSRP. A pretty loaded GT Premium with Performance Package, Navigation, and premium interior is about $42,795, and truecar.com is reporting that these cars are selling for under $40K. The Mustang forums indicate most buyers did even better than that. I went to a local dealer for a test drive of the 2015 GT, and without even negotiating, the salesman told me he could order a car for me for $1000 off MSRP. There was no doubt in my mind I could have easily gotten a $2-3K discount.

Other than that, your assessment of the Mustang seems pretty much spot on, though obviously you couldn't have been anywhere near the limits with a car that's not broken in driving in wet snow conditions.

Just to sum up, I think stock-for-stock, the Mustang is at a better starting point in terms of power and sheer grip, while the BMW is smaller and more nimble, and not too far behind power-wise. The Mustang is less refined and more raw, and probably would be more fun to "hoon" in. The BMW has a huge edge in status/prestige.