[caycep]

Will be interesting to see how it stacks up. Cadillac is being pushed hard and while the ATS isn't for everyone, they are clearly going after the sports sedan/coupe segment and more options is always good for consumers and for lighting a fire under BMW. Especially since it seems the N20 and N55 in their current states are already so good, it'll be exciting to see; if these are really even better, what the next generation of engines will be like.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ve-v6-engines/

Now if only Caddy would change their design language to be less sharp hard edges and with tiny windows with lousy visibility there might be something...

[shark715]

I agree with you on all counts..

[zkeeper]

But you gotta remember that GM and Cadillac specifically, hired Dennis Vader, [Darth's brother] to be design engineer several years ago.

His sister, Darlene was instrumental in the Camaro...a bit more feminine I guess; but it runs in the family.

[3.0L]

Those V-6's sound good on paper, but I still don't care for the Cadillac body styles.

[caycep]

I suppose, the little side voice in my head is "think of the engine swap possibilities".

**(of note, I have no wrenching ability whatsoever)

[Lucky13]

Yea great engines, that's why Cadillac cars sales keep declining because they are so great. Doubles digit decreases ytd and that includes the new CTS. Why would someone want the 2.0 Caddy engine because the BMW 2.0 spanks it and the future isn't 6.2 liter engines. I guess I don't get this conversation but apparently the general public doesn't either. Germans cars can run as fast as GM with .50 of the displacement, I had a 6 or 7 liter back in 1970 in a Buick, real innovation. A 430 cubic inch probably the same engine as a Caddy just updated.

[davefromfla]

Originally Posted by zkeeper

But you gotta remember that GM and Cadillac specifically, hired Dennis Vader, [Darth's brother] to be design engineer several years ago.

His sister, Darlene was instrumental in the Camaro...a bit more feminine I guess; but it runs in the family.

Yes-she designed that lame-ass interior in the Camaro.

[Shindo]

Originally Posted by 235-dmc

Yes-she designed that lame-ass interior in the Camaro.

Agreed, I had the miss fortune of renting a camero convertible while on vacation in hawaii. It looks kind of cool, but after driving it it has no redeeming qualities. Terrible visability, interior, space, steering and brakes.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by Shindo

Agreed, I had the miss fortune of renting a camero convertible while on vacation in hawaii. It looks kind of cool, but after driving it it has no redeeming qualities. Terrible visability, interior, space, steering and brakes.

Had the same experience. Rented a Camaro SS Convertible while on vacation in California in 2013 and thought we were going to have a blast given that it was supposed to have well over 400hp and over 400 ft/lb of torque.
We were very disappointed in the ride quality, handling and just about everything else. Even the power didn't seem to be there. My 128i cabrio (I had at the time) seem to have more get-up and go and way more fun to drive.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Not too impressed to be honest ... Most of the innovations that are being talked about in the article have been achieved by BMW and likes years ago + you get a better body stile with the german automakers.

Im not a big fan of companies that in order to sell, they start making comparison how their cars perform as well as BMW and Benz. That by itself should tell you to just get a BMW or Benz ( Lexus and Hyundai have been adopting this strategy for a while).

[angelbones]

I think the Bimmerphiles are underestimating Cadillac. Granted, I traded in my CTS coupe for my present BMW, but I have no bias either way. It was a beautiful car (although I understand not for everybody), and I got compliments nearly every day on its looks. It had performance, looks, quality, much better interiors, but was also somewhat slower, used more gas, and was about 500 pounds heavier. Almost waited for ATS coupe but glad I didn't, as I think they made it too conservative compared to the Wow factor of the CTS coupe. That said, it's started to grow on me some. Their 3.6 V6 has and is a reliable engine. Their 2.0 seems stout for its size but can't speak to reliability. I would say that if, like most American cars, they went on a diet, they would be surpassing the Germans. The magnetic ride control on that car is unbeatable. Oh well, I'm happily enjoying my BMW lease, and we'll see where everyone's at in a couple years.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Not too impressed to be honest ... Most of the innovations that are being talked about in the article have been achieved by BMW and likes years ago + you get a better body stile with the german automakers.

Im not a big fan of companies that in order to sell, they start making comparison how their cars perform as well as BMW and Benz. That by itself should tell you to just get a BMW or Benz ( Lexus and Hyundai have been adopting this strategy for a while).

I've long been a BMW fan, and I see nothing wrong at all with GM making BMW the target. Competition is good; in the long run it does nothing but benefit all of us consumers, and will hopefully keep BMW from becoming fat, happy and complacent. I think you are making a mistake by underestimating GM. Look at what they have been able to achieve with the new Corvette, especially with the price. After owning numerous BMW products, one think I can say for sure is that we are getting gouged on pricing, especially for options. And when it comes time for out of warranty parts, look out. I've experienced some breathtaking prices.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by shark715

I've long been a BMW fan, and I see nothing wrong at all with GM making BMW the target. Competition is good; in the long run it does nothing but benefit all of us consumers, and will hopefully keep BMW from becoming fat, happy and complacent. I think you are making a mistake by underestimating GM. Look at what they have been able to achieve with the new Corvette, especially with the price. After owning numerous BMW products, one think I can say for sure is that we are getting gouged on pricing, especially for options. And when it comes time for out of warranty parts, look out. I've experienced some breathtaking prices.

Im not underestimating Gm and as you have mentioned the Corvetter is the best example of their potential.
That being said i will always choose a company that is targeting to make the best car not a car similar to the best one.

[hoppy6698]

Originally Posted by caycep

Will be interesting to see how it stacks up. Cadillac is being pushed hard and while the ATS isn't for everyone, they are clearly going after the sports sedan/coupe segment and more options is always good for consumers and for lighting a fire under BMW. Especially since it seems the N20 and N55 in their current states are already so good, it'll be exciting to see; if these are really even better, what the next generation of engines will be like.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ve-v6-engines/

Now if only Caddy would change their design language to be less sharp hard edges and with tiny windows with lousy visibility there might be something...

I agree, especially on the design language. That aside, Caddy thinks their cars are worth the same in price as BMWs. Even if they become near equals, their vehicles should come at a discount from German made and imported makes.

[335BOY]

Why is that?

[G-Mann]

I also think Cadillac needs to work on their pricing structure. Why get something that is trying to compare itself to a BMW at the some price point versus just getting the BMW.

I can understand GM trying to make a statement by saying it is as good as BMW in every way including price but myself and others don't see it this way and the sales numbers speak for itself. I also don't see the caddy holding its resale value as well.

ATS and new engines are still a step in the right direction for Cadillac and perhaps a more intriguing proposition in a few years.