[Kolyan2k]

To be honest I find stock 235i a bit too slow, I can't imaging driving 228i. I think Stage 2 235i is something I would want for daily driving but I am not a big fan of mods

[leeadam]

Reviews always make me laugh, none of us are professional drivers track racing each day, and for me day to day use and the odd blast along country lanes i find the 235 a great little car, Ive tried mates 228 and just thought it looked so bland styling wise, and really noticed the lack of power and the amazing sound of the 3 litre, PLUS proper Bms just have to be a 6 cylinder in my mind.
In next two years or so i think ill make jump to a new M3 rather than an M2 which i loooooove the look of, but just not different enough in performance/interior to my 235 to justify the cost.

[den525]

On a scale of 1-10 of disagreeing with this article it would be 10/10!!

I've driven the 228 on 2 separate occasions, both as a loaner from BMW (currently driving one now as my car is in for warranty work).

It's so BORING! I understand everyone's needs are different, I understand people getting the 228 if they don't care about performance. But it's just no fun to drive, it lacks power, it lacks grunt and it lacks that emotional feeling.

This article reminds me of reviews of the 86/BRZ... They say how amazing it is, it's light on its heat and handles great... But you jump in and it just feels empty in your heart, it's so boring and slow. Car is lighter front end yes but no fun

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by den525

On a scale of 1-10 of disagreeing with this article it would be 10/10!!

I've driven the 228 on 2 separate occasions, both as a loaner from BMW (currently driving one now as my car is in for warranty work).

It's so BORING! I understand everyone's needs are different, I understand people getting the 228 if they don't care about performance. But it's just no fun to drive, it lacks power, it lacks grunt and it lacks that emotional feeling.

This article reminds me of reviews of the 86/BRZ... They say how amazing it is, it's light on its heat and handles great... But you jump in and it just feels empty in your heart, it's so boring and slow. Car is lighter front end yes but no fun

Your perspective on the 228i may be impacted due to them being loaners with the expected (lack of ) equipment. The entry level 228i is a price point car. The proper one to experience is at least MSport, but far preferably, the THP equipped vehicle. Jalopnik reviewed this configuration quite memorably.

[Xi-Xi]

Originally Posted by den525

It's so BORING! I understand everyone's needs are different, I understand people getting the 228 if they don't care about performance. But it's just no fun to drive, it lacks power, it lacks grunt and it lacks that emotional feeling.

Total BS on every level. Well done, sir.

[den525]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Your perspective on the 228i may be impacted due to them being loaners with the expected (lack of ) equipment. The entry level 228i is a price point car. The proper one to experience is at least MSport, but far preferably, the THP equipped vehicle. Jalopnik reviewed this configuration quite memorably.

Loaner have msport package which in Australia comes with "thp" m sport suspension, brakes etc.

Statement still stands, car is not powerful enough, you step on it and there's no urgency.

The article just doesn't make sense

[den525]

Originally Posted by Xi-Xi

Total BS on every level. Well done, sir.

It's how the car feels for me. Obviously you bought it for different reasons.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by den525

Loaner have msport package which in Australia comes with "thp" m sport suspension, brakes etc.

Statement still stands, car is not powerful enough, you step on it and there's no urgency.

The article just doesn't make sense

Different folks have different calibrations for enough power/acceleration. 228i may not be powerful enough to please you, but it is for others. There is no definitive objective measurement for drawing this line.

BTW, THP does not have MSport suspension....it's MAdaptive suspension, a step beyond.

[max_330i]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Different folks have different calibrations for enough power/acceleration. 228i may not be powerful enough to please you, but it is for others. There is no definitive objective measurement for drawing this line.

BTW, THP does not have MSport suspension....it's MAdaptive suspension, a step beyond.

I agree that "enough power" is extremely subjective. Some people get "enough power" from a Civic. Others need a Hellcat Challenger. The 2er, while it is a nice performance-oriented Bimmer, is somewhere in between those extremes, regardless of trim

[kdog26372]

I could see people liking the 228i more than the 235i. It's a lighter car and maybe more fun around some tracks. As a daily driver I'd have a tough time stepping down in power/acceleration, but that's just me. I find acceleration and power both in straights and coming hard out of a turn to be big factors in what I like these days. Never drove a 228i, but did have a 328i loaner and found it quite slow and uninspiring, but then I didn't like the 335 w/xdrive either and I love my M235i which is only maybe 100 pounds lighter, so who knows.

I did have a Honda S2000 that I changed the gearing on and that was a blast to drive and very quick at the time. It was probably 900 pounds lighter so that helped a lot in the tossible and fun department. I wonder if I'd still enjoy it coming from a tuned 135i and now M235i?

[Xi-Xi]

Originally Posted by den525

It's how the car feels for me. Obviously you bought it for different reasons.

Actually, by any objective standard, the 228i is a rather quick, not underpowered by any means, car. I also disagree with your contention that those of us who bought one are neutered girly-men who would rather drive a Ford Focus than the supremely well balanced, marvelously handling sports coupe that it is. And, no, I didn't buy the car for different reasons from you. It's not a "BORING" car. Period. I know it's limitations and what it lacks. But to say, as you virtually do, that it's little more than a glorified Honda Civic, is beyond nonsense.

[den525]

Originally Posted by Xi-Xi

Actually, by any objective standard, the 228i is a rather quick, not underpowered by any means, car. I also disagree with your contention that those of us who bought one are neutered girly-men who would rather drive a Ford Focus than the supremely well balanced, marvelously handling sports coupe that it is. And, no, I didn't buy the car for different reasons from you. It's not a "BORING" car. Period. I know it's limitations and what it lacks. But to say, as you virtually do, that it's little more than a glorified Honda Civic, is beyond nonsense.

I'm unsure why you're so defensive. I clearly said it's not even for me... it doesn't mean it's not enough for everyone else.

I do find the car boring... What disappoints me the most is the way power is delivered, it says 5.7seconds 0-100, which is by no means "slow" but it simply doesn't feel like that, it feels sluggish, I'm sure if you step foot to the floor it can do 5.7seconds as claimed, but in day to day driving, we don't step foot to the floor, that's the problem.

People always say "well balanced", "marvellously handling sports coupe", no one is denying that, i'm not. But like I said in another post, the 86/BRZ is also very well balanced, and marvellously handling sports car, but to me it's boring, because i don't drive on a race track day to day, for a daily, i'd like to feel the performance.

I'm not saying it's a civic or focus, don't know where you're getting that from... but for the price, i'd rather get a Focus RS, or a S3 sedan...

For me the 4cylinder engine just doesn't do it for me.

I'm not trying to diss 228 owners, if that is what you want, great!

I'm just voicing my opinion that I completely disagree with the article, considering I have 1M and M235i in the household, and have driven the 228 for a week.

[BarryJI]

Den525, it's not your opinion of the 228i that is objectionable but the tone in which you choose to express your disdain for the car. If you want to influence people with your viewpoint, you might consider expressing it with a little less arrogant dismissiveness. I've driven performance cars all my life and to call this one "boring" merely makes you look like you are trying to start an argument rather than expressing a considered opinion.

[Pparana]

Yawn,,, buy what you like. That being said I have driven all 3 on track in stock form. I have tracked, raced cars and motorcycles for 12 years. My thoughts below, which if you knew me you would ignore 90 percent of what I say.

228, great fun track car, easy to drive at the limit. Very forgiving. Less understeer than m235i. Great if your starting out, or not into modding. Less power requires more engagement from the driver, which equals fun.

235i, less fun in stock form than 228, faster, but your run into understeer. Holds the car back significantly. With a few mods makes a phenomenal track car, but does take mods. Sock form a little boring.

M2, very capable out of the box, and I am sure with some mods will be very very capable. Feels piggy on the 19s, and not a big fan of the e LSD. For most people they will feel like a hero in this car, it will fix a lot of mistakes.

For me I like the 235i, with mods, but really at a track day they are all fun. Track days are not racing, not even close, people who get so concerned over a few seconds, miss the point, they are for fun. I would bet most people who brag about lap times and who they passed on track days have never competed in any type of wheel to wheel racing. It is completely irrelevant.

[RPM90]

Interesting article.
Of course I find some of the things stated to be at odds with itself.

At first, the writer describes the handling and steering of the M2.
He writes, "It doesn't hurt that the steering, so inert and cheerless in the M235i, has been reinvigorated with a newfound love of feedback and detail."

That's great. I have to ask then, what did BMW do with the electric assist steering in the M2 that they can't seem to figure it out in the 235i and 335/340i? Even the 228i and 328i have been criticized for their lack luster steering feel. The 235i and 335i have been criticized to another level for lack of steering feel to such a degree that one has to wonder if the actual racks are different between the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines.

Granted the 2.0T 2 and 3 series are lighter weight, and have less weight up front. I did the calculations.
228i MT compared to the M235i has the 228i with 133lbs to 144lbs less up front. This article states that the weight distribution for the 235i is 52.5%/47/5%. However, BMW site specs state that the distribution is 52.2%/47.8%. It's a small difference, but that's where I get 133lbs difference, using BMW's spec, and 144lbs difference using R&T specs.

Also, the vehicle weight specs are a bit different on BMW's site and what R&T list. The 228i, like the 328i, has less standard features/items that give it a lower base weight. For example, the 228i and 328i don't come with a sunroof standard, and they have smaller wheels/tires, smaller discs, etc...
BMW lists the base weight of the 228i at 3295lbs for the MT.
R&T lists the weight at 3341lbs. That's a 46lb difference. Maybe R&T used an "as built" weight, which is a better comparison than using base weight as most BMW buyers add sunroofs and powered seats, and even larger wheels/tires. Loading a 228i to match the base equipment of a 235i, it seems that there would be more than just 46lbs. So, there is a question here of what is the actual true weight of equally optioned 2 series.
And, how does that then affect the weight distribution.

The majority of the weight difference will be the smaller 2.0T engine.
Also, the placement of the engine likely allows it to be placed closer towards the center of the car, thus giving the overall car a closer to 50/50 distribution, and that of course helps improve handling and transitional handling feel. The 235i/335i have inline 6 engines that are longer longitudinally, and that likely moves the larger engines weight a bit farther forward.

Given that even, I still don't understand how there can be such huge disparity in feel as stated by that writer. He makes it sound as if the cars steering and feel are not even based on the same platform, and yet they are!

The writer who so praises the M2's "...new found love of feedback and detail.", regarding the steering feel, goes on to praise the 228i's steering even more so.
The 228i reviewed in this article is an Msport as it has the same staggered and same size tires as the M235i, and the tires are even the same brand and type.

I've driven a number of 228i's and 328i's along with 328i's and 335i's.
I too have noticed the lighter front end of the 2.0T powered 2 and 3 series cars. Transitional handling does feel a bit quicker and lighter in the 2.0T powered cars. However, I'm at a loss at how much that writer states that difference. There is a difference, I have felt it. But, nowhere to the degree this guy is stating it and he states often to near hyperbole.

I notice the power difference between the 2 engines more than the steering feel difference. The biggest difference in steering feel that I have experienced in the 2 and 3 series to date is the difference between the F30 335i Msport I had and my current 340i Msport.
Since I got my F30 335i BMW has had something like 3-4 revisions to the steering rack with different rack numbers. The 340i received a new steering rack from those, and I really like the improvement in feel and effort.

I haven't driven an M2 so that I can compare my 340i steering to it, but I hope to get a test drive soon.
My next BMW will likely not be a 3 series. I am hoping that BMW brings a 2 series based sedan, but if they don't I will likely go with a 2 series.
By the time I'm ready there will be a 230i and a 240i, 2.0T and 3.0T respectively. Hopefully, within the next 2 years BMW will figure out how to tune their electric assist steering racks so that there is more feel and response in the steering. They should use the last couple years of the E46 as the reference for what to shoot for. Even my 2009 135i had a great rack with great feel, as it was similar to my previous E46 325i, both were hydraulic racks.

It's odd in that one would think that a hydraulic fluid assist rack would give better feel while still nicely damping all the grit that could come through the steering to the drivers hands, compared to an electric assist motor.
At first glance it would seem that an electric assist rack would allow more feel and grit to come through, and the problem would be how to reduce too much feel. And yet, BMW's electric assist dampens too much feel.
Back to the lab BMW! The steering engineers should all be given E46's to drive in for the next 6 months to a year so that they can calibrate their senses to it.

[Xi-Xi]

Originally Posted by den525

I'm unsure why you're so defensive. I clearly said it's not even for me... it doesn't mean it's not enough for everyone else.

I do find the car boring... What disappoints me the most is the way power is delivered, it says 5.7seconds 0-100, which is by no means "slow" but it simply doesn't feel like that, it feels sluggish, I'm sure if you step foot to the floor it can do 5.7seconds as claimed, but in day to day driving, we don't step foot to the floor, that's the problem.

People always say "well balanced", "marvellously handling sports coupe", no one is denying that, i'm not. But like I said in another post, the 86/BRZ is also very well balanced, and marvellously handling sports car, but to me it's boring, because i don't drive on a race track day to day, for a daily, i'd like to feel the performance.

I'm not saying it's a civic or focus, don't know where you're getting that from... but for the price, i'd rather get a Focus RS, or a S3 sedan...

For me the 4cylinder engine just doesn't do it for me.

I'm not trying to diss 228 owners, if that is what you want, great!

I'm just voicing my opinion that I completely disagree with the article, considering I have 1M and M235i in the household, and have driven the 228 for a week.

Fair enough, sounds reasonable. But it certainly contradicts your previous statement where you said most emphatically, "I understand people getting the 228 if they don't care about performance." You know, that's not true at all.

[pazzo]

RPM - you talked about weight, only taking that variable into the equation,
If both cars are built on the same platform/design of the chassis/structural components is the same, and assuming that designed was based on the requirements for the heavier vehicle, (if it wasn't the 235 will start falling apart sooner) the other part of the equation is how identical structures would react to the differences in sprung weight under load.

That 50lbs or 100 lbs difference, would equate to much greater forces while under load.
So while the weight difference may seem slight on paper, without kinematics analysis, the differences in all those structures can't be completely understood.

Simply, if the 228 leverages frame, steering components, springs etc from a 235, the 228 is over engineered for those forces while driving compared to the 235 thus explaining the extreme difference in feel when driven back to back over several days in different environments.

[BLACKSNOMO]

"not a big fan of the e LSD" Why ??

[den525]

Originally Posted by Xi-Xi

Fair enough, sounds reasonable. But it certainly contradicts your previous statement where you said most emphatically, "I understand people getting the 228 if they don't care about performance." You know, that's not true at all.

I still stand by that statement. 228i by today's standard is NOT a performance vehicle.

The 2 series chassis itself is great. Hence why the 228 handles great. In the segment and price range there's no other coupe, only hatchbacks and sedans. You look at focus RS, Renault Megane RS275, golf r, and Audi s3... Those would be considered performance orientated vehicles, while A250/Cla250 along with the 228 to be standard hatch/coupes.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

To be honest I find stock 235i a bit too slow, I can't imaging driving 228i. I think Stage 2 235i is something I would want for daily driving but I am not a big fan of mods

Odd that you say that, considering that the M235i is a hell of a lot quicker than your S2000.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

Odd that you say that, considering that the M235i is a hell of a lot quicker than your S2000.

While we are on that note, the 228i will edge out a stock S2000 in the 1/4 mile and from 0 to 60 too.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

Odd that you say that, considering that the M235i is a hell of a lot quicker than your S2000.

S2000 is a slow ass car....2850lbs and same 240hp as 228i. Everything else is light years ahead of 228i and M235i combined