[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

You are unbelievable. Take a Rwd car and an awd car to a hill and tell me which one will have the least trouble climbing the hill . Very simple. Man you like talking.......in circles.

The English is also simple. The AWD will do better, but that completely misses the point. This was a discussion of relative differences and weight transfer, but you seem to only be comfortable with "black and white" thinking. So be it. AWD is better. Done.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

The English is also simple. The AWD will do better, but that completely misses the point. This was a discussion of relative differences and weight transfer, but you seem to only be comfortable with "black and white" thinking. So be it. AWD is better. Done.

Check thread title.

[williesm]

Originally Posted by Ello

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Thinking I'm probably going to go AWD here in Vermont, because getting stuck in the middle of nowhere here really sucks -- and trust the comments of those that are enjoying their AT. That said, has anyone tried RWD with LSD, and does that help much on a snowy hill?

We live in the countryside outside of Burlington. The main roads are plowed, but there are many many roads (including roads that I drive regularly) that aren't, and many are hilly. Actually, driving aggressively on snowy roads in an AWD can be pretty fun (as I said in my previous post mentioning my old AWD Golf R) because at least in my last car, when the rear wheels would start to slide a bit I could feel one or the other tires suddenly grabbing traction.

Vermont is one of those places with empty winding back roads, both dirt and asphalt, and where the speed traps are always in the same place. The towns here are so small and everyone knows each other, and most of the police don't want to bust anyone they know, so they tend to set up on main roads where the tourists from NYC and Montreal speed by.

Anyway, I'll give the paddles a try. Is anyone using them refgulalry and liking them as much as AT?

I was just in Europe and we rented a Volvo V60 diesel r-design that had paddles, and after two weeks I finally got how to use them and it was a blast. The diesel could only rev to 4500 so I'm interested to see what it'll be like driving with paddles in a car I can get up to 7K and beyond!

Go with your gut and get the AWD. That is why they made it. For those of us that live in the northeast. RWD will only be More beneficial if you do autocross or track.

[Ello]

Thanks for all the replies.

I guess I'm looking for an owner with experience living in a hilly area where it snows and who owns RWD, and who can tell me what it is like from actual experience.

I'm not really as interested in theory, though I appreciate the ideas.

[Pray for Mojo]

Originally Posted by Ello

Thanks for all the replies.

I guess I'm looking for an owner with experience living in a hilly area where it snows and who owns RWD, and who can tell me what it is like from actual experience.

I'm not really as interested in theory, though I appreciate the ideas.

I drove my RWD all winter on snow tires. It doesn't have the locking differential so it struggled getting going on steeper inclines. For $1,600 if you live somewhere hilly and plan on driving it year round, get the xdrive.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Ello

Thanks for all the replies.

I guess I'm looking for an owner with experience living in a hilly area where it snows and who owns RWD, and who can tell me what it is like from actual experience.

I'm not really as interested in theory, though I appreciate the ideas.

If you live in a hilly area and have to drive in the snow frequently, then get the AWD. I would rather have that piece of mind.

I drove through Snowpocalypse here in NY over the past few winters and got away with RWD and snow tires, but we have very little in the way of steep elevation changes here on LI. I did have an incident where on a very icy off ramp I slid backwards before getting going. I never got stuck, but on a very slick and steep hill I would not have felt comfortable, even though the car probably would have made it.

[RWDdrifter]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

If you live in a hilly area and have to drive in the snow frequently, then get the AWD. I would rather have that piece of mind.

I drove through Snowpocalypse here in NY over the past few winters and got away with RWD and snow tires, but we have very little in the way of steep elevation changes here on LI. I did have an incident where on a very icy off ramp I slid backwards before getting going. I never got stuck, but on a very slick and steep hill I would not have felt comfortable, even though the car probably would have made it.

+1

I drove my 325 E30 daily in upstate NY for many years (e.g., between Poughkeepsie and Kingston) and through many bad storms. Never got stuck once, but maybe I was lucky. I would have wanted AWD then and there. If I lived in a hilly rural part of northern VT I would choose AWD (and seriously consider moving).

Also, +1 on an earlier response by Sportstick. Stopping and steering without sliding off the road is a big issue that AWD won't help (IMO). For me, the main worry on icy roads. was not getting moving or maintaining forward motion, but staying on the road especially when on a curving downhill stretch of road.

[LeeT73]

Great debate Gents. Thanks! I'm going into this winter with my 228i RWD. I'll get a set of snows and see how it goes. If it seems to rough-going, I'll trade it in for an AWD.

Of course, my Father-In-Law will continue to hammer me, with why his STI is vastly superior to my 228i, but it is what it is. I suspect next year (whether the RWD is rough-going or not), I am going to trade up to a 235i XDrive. Then I will get the last laugh! haha!

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by LeeT73

Great debate Gents. Thanks! I'm going into this winter with my 228i RWD. I'll get a set of snows and see how it goes. If it seems to rough-going, I'll trade it in for an AWD.

Of course, my Father-In-Law will continue to hammer me, with why his STI is vastly superior to my 228i, but it is what it is. I suspect next year (whether the RWD is rough-going or not), I am going to trade up to a 235i XDrive. Then I will get the last laugh! haha!

STI might be vastly superior in the snow and/or heavy rain... but not in the dry or a track....

also the STI is vastly cheaper inside... let him sit inside the 228 and compare

[LeeT73]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

STI might be vastly superior in the snow and/or heavy rain... but not in the dry or a track....

also the STI is vastly cheaper inside... let him sit inside the 228 and compare

Yes - That much he did concede. The Bimmer is on a different level aesthetically - inside and out. Comfort-wise not even close as well.

Does anyone else think the spoiler on the back of the STI looks ridiculous?

[Ian_Mark]

Originally Posted by LeeT73

Yes - That much he did concede. The Bimmer is on a different level aesthetically - inside and out. Comfort-wise not even close as well.

Does anyone else think the spoiler on the back of the STI looks ridiculous?

yes. few times I was considering a trunk swap.

[LeeT73]

Originally Posted by Ian_

yes. few times I was considering a trunk swap.

Sorry friend. I never thought there'd be any STI drivers on this board.

The rest of the car is very cool, however. I actually really like the front end, quarter angles, and rims.

[angelbones]

To the OP, you might find this article of interest, which I posted in a separate thread.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

[BEM-S4]

Just FYI I did last winter the the hilly northeast with Blizzaks. It sucked. Looking at getting out of it for AWD now. Have also lived in Chicago as point of comparison, it's super flat there so if you're someplace solar RWD with snow tires is fine.

[EternalVendetta]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Just FYI I did last winter the the hilly northeast with Blizzaks. It sucked. Looking at getting out of it for AWD now. Have also lived in Chicago as point of comparison, it's super flat there so if you're someplace solar RWD with snow tires is fine.

As a resident of NJ, this is making me rethink my choice of RWD for my ED in September. Everything I'd read was along the lines of 'RWD w/ winter tires > AWD w/ AS'; it's sounding like one may want AWD w/ winter tires if one lives in a hilly area. Thanks for sharing this.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by EternalVendetta

As a resident of NJ, this is making me rethink my choice of RWD for my ED in September. Everything I'd read was along the lines of 'RWD w/ winter tires > AWD w/ AS'; it's sounding like one may want AWD w/ winter tires if one lives in a hilly area. Thanks for sharing this.

I have access to a large number of cars between mine, gf's, mom and dad are in the area as well so play a fair bit of "musical chairs" depending on weather conditions. I've driven all of these in bad weather in PA, NY, NJ in the past winter and would rank them as follows, from worst to best. These cars are all 2014 or newer, just FYI:
RWD M235 with Blizzaks
AWD Volvo S60 with All Season Tires
AWD 328D with All Season Tires
Porsche Macan S All Season Tires
Audi Allroad All Season Tires

Long story short your best bet is AWD with winter tires. Not to belabor the point but your stock tires won't last forever anyway, so why not have summer tires and winter vs all season which isn't perfect ever (although that's another argument). I had a 2002 S4 that I put Blizzaks on and that thing was like a mountain goat, routinely passed SUVs by the side of the road although in the real deep stuff ground clearance can be an issue obviously. I am currently looking to get rid of my RWD M235 coupe and replace it with a AWD convertible. Will run 17" BBS SR rims with Blizzaks in the winter and the same rim with a higher profile PSS summer tire in the warm months. Same rolling diameter (at least super close) as stock but a lot more cushion for our shitty roads with minimal performance sacrifice. Again this is another topic but worth thinking about at least.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by EternalVendetta

As a resident of NJ, this is making me rethink my choice of RWD for my ED in September. Everything I'd read was along the lines of 'RWD w/ winter tires > AWD w/ AS'; it's sounding like one may want AWD w/ winter tires if one lives in a hilly area. Thanks for sharing this.

Careful not to base a decision on generic "Blizzaks". If they were Blizzak LM series, the outcome is not surprising. I would be surprised for such a negative review on Blizzak WS80. Perhaps we can ask for clarification? WS80 have survived heavy snow with rear wheel drive quite well here.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Careful not to base a decision on generic "Blizzaks". If they were Blizzak LM series, the outcome is not surprising. I would be surprised for such a negative review on Blizzak WS80. Perhaps we can ask for clarification? WS80 have survived heavy snow with rear wheel drive quite well here.

They were the LM, and that's a fair point. And to be clear my review was based simply on the worst of the worst days going up and down hills since that was the specific point of concern. I didn't get a more aggressive snow tire because I had all those options for cars available to me. So yes, you could get a very aggressive winter tire and maybe be better off than AWD with a not so good all season in certain circumstances. Did not intend to provide any sort of scientific experiment or anything, just my personal experience.

[bobby66]

Originally Posted by LeeT73

Great debate Gents. Thanks! I'm going into this winter with my 228i RWD. I'll get a set of snows and see how it goes. If it seems to rough-going, I'll trade it in for an AWD.

Of course, my Father-In-Law will continue to hammer me, with why his STI is vastly superior to my 228i, but it is what it is. I suspect next year (whether the RWD is rough-going or not), I am going to trade up to a 235i XDrive. Then I will get the last laugh! haha!

Kinda weird here in Canada because the demand for xdrive is high here, the resale value holds well.

[Jasond13]

Originally Posted by Steven1077

You also get comedy suspension with X drive

You are incorrect The suspension is Exactly the same.
With xdrive you can go around the track faster
With xdrive you will also do a quarter mile quicker
The improved traction in Dry,Rain & snow in substantial over rear wheel.
So what you won't destroy your back tires, unless your a young kid who wants to do burnouts all day and that's what your looking for. The xdrive model is absolutely fun to drive. I test drove both and went with the xdrive and I'm happy I did it. Love the car. It may even keep me from getting the M2 when it comes around.

[aerostar]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Careful not to base a decision on generic "Blizzaks". If they were Blizzak LM series, the outcome is not surprising. I would be surprised for such a negative review on Blizzak WS80. Perhaps we can ask for clarification? WS80 have survived heavy snow with rear wheel drive quite well here.

I thought the LM series are the nicer ones...

They're more expensive at least.

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by aerostar

I thought the LM series are the nicer ones...

They're more expensive at least.

The LM series are "performance" winters, with a quieter, less aggressive tread that won't clear snow nearly as well as the WS series. Think of the LM series as using the tread pattern from an all-season tire and the compound from a true winter tire.