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      03-04-2015, 08:40 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by bimmercar
tip: you can use the leasematic app for iphone, its was very helpful for calculating leases
Thanks for the contribution! This app is helpful when you have all the numbers when at the dealer. Just make sure they are giving you the best possible numbers
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      03-04-2015, 08:48 AM   #46
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anyone know the residuals for 12k and 15k/yr for March? any incentives for March? for m235xi
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      03-04-2015, 08:53 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by bimmercar
anyone know the residuals for 12k and 15k/yr for March? any incentives for March? for m235xi
No incentives, 61% and 59%.
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      03-04-2015, 08:55 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleymlh
Scout,

Thank you for your valuable info and guidance. I am looking to lease a 228 coupe that I will need to order. Options include Msport, Lighting, Moonroof and upgrade paint. MSRP comes to 38,500

What kind of sale price do you think I will be able to negotiate this down to? Money factor and residual I have been given for 36/12 is .00129 and 61%. Is this accurate?

I am in Ohio and only like putting down first month payment at signing - no cap cost reduction or any other form of down payment. What do you think a competitive monthly would be under these terms? Thanks again

Michelle
For an ordered car you are probably looking at 36,500-37,000 final price with everything included fees etc.

With basically nothing due at signing your payments should be right around: $472 a month including tax. They are giving you a hell of a deal on money factor and residual because usually for 36/12 the money factor is .0013 and residual is .59 (yes 36 months has been lower than or equally to 39 months). At 39 months it will be slightly cheaper
They aren't giving him a "hell of a deal", those are the standard lease rates for March, FYI.
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      03-04-2015, 09:13 AM   #49
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I was thinking in terms of February deals, no need to be a dick about it we are all just trying to help others here.

And for the record if those were so "standard" then everyone would get them but you have people that get shafted with .0042 money factors with good credit..... That's the dealers and BMWFS trying to screw them for every penny. So for someone who doesn't know squat about leasing, when they ask us on this forum if it's a good deal, yeah maybe it is a hell of a deal compared to what could happen if they didn't know anything and didn't ask.

Let's try to be productive here and not make this about degrees of rightness, because at the end of the day anything that gets you invoice or below, with base money factor, and an increased residual is a "hell of a deal" no matter how you slice it.

However, thank you for contributing and helping me clarify my March numbers. Its great to have different sources spread information to the community.

Best,

M
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      03-04-2015, 09:48 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
I was thinking in terms of February deals, no need to be a dick about it we are all just trying to help others here.
I think you are a wee bit oversensitive. Nothing I said was being dickish, I was simply trying to give good information here for people asking the questions.

To say "They are giving you a hell of a deal" when they are offering the standard March lease rates is simply wrong, and misinforming the person asking the question--it implies that they are receiving an extraordinary deal, when the fact is that it is a quite ordinary deal. It is valuable for this person to know this information--if they think they are getting a *crazy* good lease offer they might be more likely to accept a less than great sale price, etc etc.

No doubt the bump in residual for March rates is a nice one, and also, no doubt, some horrible dealers do mark up the rates, which this person's is not, so that is good too.

At any rate, I apologize for upsetting you, it wasn't my intention.
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      03-04-2015, 10:02 AM   #51
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again not the "standard" numbers, those are the base numbers. BASE. So anytime a dealer decides they are going to cave and give you BASE numbers, then its a good deal. Period.

Not every car buyer is as savvy as us, therefore they won't just expect to get BASE numbers.

You did not hurt any feelings, but you are also spreading misinformation as well and making it seem like that isn't a good deal, because you will not get numbers better than these BASE numbers. So by calling them "standard" you are misleading those buyers as well. Not only that BUT I never, ever told people to take a higher sale price just because residuals and money factors are good. I always advocate dealing for invoice if its on the lot, and dreaming for invoice if they order it, but I am being realistic with these people and still leaving some profit in for the dealer. Im not in the business to screw dealers nor any new buyers of these cars.

Again thank you for your contribution. I hope all watching this thread have learned something new about the base numbers and the process from this sub convo.

You are a gentleman and a scholar.
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      03-04-2015, 10:44 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
again not the "standard" numbers, those are the base numbers. BASE. So anytime a dealer decides they are going to cave and give you BASE numbers, then its a good deal. Period.

Not every car buyer is as savvy as us, therefore they won't just expect to get BASE numbers.

You did not hurt any feelings, but you are also spreading misinformation as well and making it seem like that isn't a good deal, because you will not get numbers better than these BASE numbers. So by calling them "standard" you are misleading those buyers as well. Not only that BUT I never, ever told people to take a higher sale price just because residuals and money factors are good. I always advocate dealing for invoice if its on the lot, and dreaming for invoice if they order it, but I am being realistic with these people and still leaving some profit in for the dealer. Im not in the business to screw dealers nor any new buyers of these cars.

Again thank you for your contribution. I hope all watching this thread have learned something new about the base numbers and the process from this sub convo.

You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Man, you need to let this go. I'm not spreading any misinformation--if you think I am please be specific. You said that the base lease rates was equivalent to being offered "a hell of a deal". This is not true, plain and simple. There is a huge gap between a hell of a deal and a fair deal. Getting the base lease rates is a basic part of a fair deal, nothing more.
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      03-04-2015, 10:54 AM   #53
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I guess non-lawyers do not appreciate the importance of language. If a better deal is impossible, and the norm is not the base numbers, then base numbers by definition would be a hell of a deal and not necessarily a normal deal. Next time you snipe, stay in for the long haul.
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      03-04-2015, 10:59 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
I guess non-lawyers do not appreciate the importance of language. If a better deal is impossible, and the norm is not the base numbers, then base numbers by definition would be a hell of a deal and not necessarily a normal deal. Next time you snipe, stay in for the long haul.
I'm sorry. But I agree with the other guy.

The mf has an allowable MARK UP. So you if arent getting the base, that's like paying over MSRP for a car.
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      03-04-2015, 11:08 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by opfreak View Post
I'm sorry. But I agree with the other guy.

The mf has an allowable MARK UP. So you if arent getting the base, that's like paying over MSRP for a car.
It can seem like whatever you want. But plain and simple the norm is to go above the base, to be the mark up. When the norm is to screw the customer, then getting the best deal possible, is a hell of a deal in relation to the norm.

Im not saying these people who do this are not idiots, but when you can leave a dealer knowing you got the best possible deal, that should still be a hell of a deal. You are not the average car buyer, so your view is biased, and if you take a step back, you would see what I mean.

At the end of the day you guys are arguing with a lawyer over semantics, and adding nothing of value further to my thread. If you do not like it, move along. But language matters and as long as its in my thread, I will continue to address and clarify it.

Now please do not add anything else here, unless it is asking a questions about your upcoming lease, that was the initial purpose of this thread.
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      03-04-2015, 11:16 AM   #56
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Info

Thanks for the info everyone. Didnt mean to cause any tension! Anyways my last question is basically the selling price. At 38,500 for MSRP, Scout you said I should be in the 36,500-37,000 range.

That seems a little high to me. I keep reading people getting 7-8% off MSRP and that range would only be 4-5% off. Is this really the best I can do because they have to order my car? I was hoping for 36K or under

Since we are moving towards the end of model year 15 on this car, would that generate increased discounts or doesn't it really matter?

Anyways - thanks to everyone again for their insight.
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      03-04-2015, 11:18 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
I guess non-lawyers do not appreciate the importance of language. If a better deal is impossible, and the norm is not the base numbers, then base numbers by definition would be a hell of a deal and not necessarily a normal deal. Next time you snipe, stay in for the long haul.
I'm here for the long haul. Since you are a lawyer I guess we should all just follow your commands and ignore your errors?

I didn't say normal, I said fair. Getting base lease rates does not make a hell of a deal. The point of this thread is to use our experience and perspective to help those with less of those things see if they have a great deal or not. To tell someone they have a hell of a deal when the only criteria you have to go on is that they are getting the base lease rates is plain and simply wrong. Not getting a bad deal isn't the same as getting a hell of a deal.

Getting base lease rates is the first part of getting a good deal. But many other things have to come on top of that to make it a hell of a deal. For me, to qualify as a hell of a deal on an ordered car, you'd also have to hit *at least* invoice pricing, base acquisition fee, and very low document fees. Personally, I've bought both of my leased BMWs for $500 over invoice and base rates, and I only consider those deals to be good--not extraordinary enough to be considered a hell of a deal.
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      03-04-2015, 11:24 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleymlh View Post
Thanks for the info everyone. Didnt mean to cause any tension! Anyways my last question is basically the selling price. At 38,500 for MSRP, Scout you said I should be in the 36,500-37,000 range.

That seems a little high to me. I keep reading people getting 7-8% off MSRP and that range would only be 4-5% off. Is this really the best I can do because they have to order my car? I was hoping for 36K or under

Since we are moving towards the end of model year 15 on this car, would that generate increased discounts or doesn't it really matter?

Anyways - thanks to everyone again for their insight.
It's true that you should be able to get a good discount on a 228 pretty easily, unlike the trouble people have had getting dealers to discount the 235. You can use Edmunds http://www.edmunds.com/tmv.html to find out the Invoice Price of your car (be sure to add about $250 to their invoice price for the MACO fee that is part of BMW's invoice price, but not included on Edmunds since it varies by region). A good deal would be about $500 over that price, and you can sleep soundly knowing you got a good deal. If you want to spend the time and energy to be even more aggressive, you can probably get a 228 for Invoice Price.
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      03-04-2015, 11:24 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleymlh View Post
Thanks for the info everyone. Didnt mean to cause any tension! Anyways my last question is basically the selling price. At 38,500 for MSRP, Scout you said I should be in the 36,500-37,000 range.

That seems a little high to me. I keep reading people getting 7-8% off MSRP and that range would only be 4-5% off. Is this really the best I can do because they have to order my car? I was hoping for 36K or under

Since we are moving towards the end of model year 15 on this car, would that generate increased discounts or doesn't it really matter?

Anyways - thanks to everyone again for their insight.
I was thinking including doc fees, tag, registration, etc... I think you would be able to get 36,500 all in, which means sale price would be a little under. 36,000. I always go in for as low as I think and let them sweat and see where there position truly is. It is just harder to negotiate on an order from what I have seen and what my buddy tells me. But anything is possible and I have seen people get 7-8% off MSRP.
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      03-04-2015, 11:24 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottomfg View Post
It's true that you should be able to get a good discount on a 228 pretty easily, unlike the trouble people have had getting dealers to discount the 235. You can use Edmunds http://www.edmunds.com/tmv.html to find out the Invoice Price of your car (be sure to add about $250 to their invoice price for the MACO fee that is part of BMW's invoice price, but not included on Edmunds since it varies by region). A good deal would be about $500 over that price, and you can sleep soundly knowing you got a good deal. If you want to spend the time and energy to be even more aggressive, you can probably get a 228 for Invoice Price.
AGREED! VICTORY! I knew we were on the same page! haha thank again man for the fun sparring it only does good and help the reader.
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      03-04-2015, 11:26 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottomfg View Post
I'm here for the long haul. Since you are a lawyer I guess we should all just follow your commands and ignore your errors?

I didn't say normal, I said fair. Getting base lease rates does not make a hell of a deal. The point of this thread is to use our experience and perspective to help those with less of those things see if they have a great deal or not. To tell someone they have a hell of a deal when the only criteria you have to go on is that they are getting the base lease rates is plain and simply wrong. Not getting a bad deal isn't the same as getting a hell of a deal.

Getting base lease rates is the first part of getting a good deal. But many other things have to come on top of that to make it a hell of a deal. For me, to qualify as a hell of a deal on an ordered car, you'd also have to hit *at least* invoice pricing, base acquisition fee, and very low document fees. Personally, I've bought both of my leased BMWs for $500 over invoice and base rates, and I only consider those deals to be good--not extraordinary enough to be considered a hell of a deal.
SO you assert from your language "to me" that it is highly subjective. Got it. I was trying to make it objective.
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      03-04-2015, 11:40 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13
Quote:
Originally Posted by city1991
I wanted to lease a 228 and was told I'd have to put 6000 down. So I bought a used 328i instead.
They were just trying screw you over unless you had terrible credit:
My credit is good. Ended up financing the 328 with BMWFS at 2.9 for 60 months.
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      03-04-2015, 11:50 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
It can seem like whatever you want. But plain and simple the norm is to go above the base, to be the mark up. When the norm is to screw the customer, then getting the best deal possible, is a hell of a deal in relation to the norm.

Im not saying these people who do this are not idiots, but when you can leave a dealer knowing you got the best possible deal, that should still be a hell of a deal. You are not the average car buyer, so your view is biased, and if you take a step back, you would see what I mean.

At the end of the day you guys are arguing with a lawyer over semantics, and adding nothing of value further to my thread. If you do not like it, move along. But language matters and as long as its in my thread, I will continue to address and clarify it.

Now please do not add anything else here, unless it is asking a questions about your upcoming lease, that was the initial purpose of this thread.
When wrong you just double down.

All bmw leases listed as offers on the BMW site use the base mf in their calculations. I didnt know the standard for a 'hell of a deal' is now basically MSRP.

Furthermore, if you are trying to educated people on leasing, then you shouldn't be calling base deals "hell of a deals". Because you are flat out lying to people then.
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      03-04-2015, 11:54 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opfreak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
It can seem like whatever you want. But plain and simple the norm is to go above the base, to be the mark up. When the norm is to screw the customer, then getting the best deal possible, is a hell of a deal in relation to the norm.

Im not saying these people who do this are not idiots, but when you can leave a dealer knowing you got the best possible deal, that should still be a hell of a deal. You are not the average car buyer, so your view is biased, and if you take a step back, you would see what I mean.

At the end of the day you guys are arguing with a lawyer over semantics, and adding nothing of value further to my thread. If you do not like it, move along. But language matters and as long as its in my thread, I will continue to address and clarify it.

Now please do not add anything else here, unless it is asking a questions about your upcoming lease, that was the initial purpose of this thread.
When wrong you just double down.

All bmw leases listed as offers on the BMW site use the base mf in their calculations. I didnt know the standard for a 'hell of a deal' is now basically MSRP.

Furthermore, if you are trying to educated people on leasing, then you shouldn't be calling base deals "hell of a deals". Because you are flat out lying to people then.
What? How did any of that make sense?

Jesus you really do not know how to handle people huh? Ok how about this, every time I run the numbers for someone you can comment and say "but that's base so it's shitty" there will that make you feel better?

I'm trying to make people feel happy and confident about there deals because it's SO FUCKING RARE that a dealer gives them the base numbers off the bat. PERIOD. So when I say it's a hell of deal, it's because it's so against the norm it's shocking and they should be happy. Now get the fuck off my thread.
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Recently Departed: 2020 F87 M2C, LBB, ZEC, 6MT (Euro Delivery Aug. 29, 2019, totaled by an idiot in a Camry who then ran from the scene)
Wife's Prior Car: 2018 F80 M3, Yas Marina Blue, DCT, Black 19s, Carbon Structure Anthracite Cloth/Leather Combination, Driving Assistance Package (Euro Delivery Oct. 9, 2017)
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      03-04-2015, 11:55 AM   #65
Thescout13
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Drives: '20 F80 M3CS, %E2%80%9818 GT3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city1991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13
Quote:
Originally Posted by city1991
I wanted to lease a 228 and was told I'd have to put 6000 down. So I bought a used 328i instead.
They were just trying screw you over unless you had terrible credit:
My credit is good. Ended up financing the 328 with BMWFS at 2.9 for 60 months.
Gotcha! Well congrats! The 328i is a great car congrats!
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Wife's Car: 2020 X4M Competition, Alpine White on Black Alcantara and Biege
Current Car: 2018 F80 M3CS, SMB, DCT, ZEC, MPE
Recently Departed: 2020 F87 M2C, LBB, ZEC, 6MT (Euro Delivery Aug. 29, 2019, totaled by an idiot in a Camry who then ran from the scene)
Wife's Prior Car: 2018 F80 M3, Yas Marina Blue, DCT, Black 19s, Carbon Structure Anthracite Cloth/Leather Combination, Driving Assistance Package (Euro Delivery Oct. 9, 2017)
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      03-04-2015, 01:28 PM   #66
opfreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
What? How did any of that make sense?

Jesus you really do not know how to handle people huh? Ok how about this, every time I run the numbers for someone you can comment and say "but that's base so it's shitty" there will that make you feel better?

I'm trying to make people feel happy and confident about there deals because it's SO FUCKING RARE that a dealer gives them the base numbers off the bat. PERIOD. So when I say it's a hell of deal, it's because it's so against the norm it's shocking and they should be happy. Now get the fuck off my thread.
are you an owner or mod here? Or do you just like to bully people around and act all macho?

Its not that rare to get a base numbers deal.

Its an alright deal to get base numbers. You should learn what a "hell of a deal" is before making claims like base numbers are a hell of a deal.

There were some bwm hell of a deals in the past, last month you could get ~12%+ off a x1, with a 68% residual. Those were hell of a deals. Your thread is 'average deal if you do a little bit of homework' deals.
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