[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by NGT2

They will. You think California is just going to have no cars? Give me a break. That’s just politicians voting for things that sound cool, while they’ll never be the ones having to actually back it up.

Canada is on the same path.

But what do you mean they will have no cars? You do realise other EVs makers will sell new cars. Like BMW will just not be able to sell the gas cars there. And also you can buy gas cars used.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Sales rule the day. Make a product people will buy or suffer the consequences.

[stavstavcc]

I’m all for ICEs but like it or not fossil fuels will one day be depleted. Do it’s not a matter of “if” but “when” ICEs become obsolete.

[lonestar22]

I think 2023 was the year alot of brands realized the EV sensationalism was not as big as they once once thought. Just 2 years ago alot of brands were going all in on EVs and now they are scaling down. Volvo and Volkswagen come to mind. VW forgot how to build excite g cars and now they're the worst selling brand of the VAG group besides exotics. Volvo isn't developing engines anymore and no one is interested in their EVs so they're going to fall way behind. Then they also have to keep Polestar in business which basically just sells the same cars under a different name. Unless they step it up and become a true Tesla rival I wouldn't be surprised to see Volvo out of the US market in 10 years.

[lonestar22]

Originally Posted by stavstavcc

I’m all for ICEs but like it or not fossil fuels will one day be depleted. Do it’s not a matter of “if” but “when” ICEs become obsolete.

We have efuels for that. While rare now. Itll be mainstream at some point.

[lonestar22]

Originally Posted by D52M550

This ain’t happening. Mark my words.

Californians are already sick and tired of their govt. Let's revisit this in a few years.

[Nahlem]

Well the thing about this is most people know ICE is here to stay for a long time if all ICE were suddenly to be "thrown away" that in it self would be a enormous disaster for the environment and enormous capital destruction.

EVs are great cars loved the ones that i have had so far but they aint without the fault's just like ICE cars, but there is now a "war" between ICE and EV witch is sad i think where you have fossil companies throwing out so much false claims about EVs that it gets tiresome arguing against all the falsehood about them as always they are trying to suppress any alternative development instead of having both ICE and EVs coexisting as both super viable options it doesn't always have to be one or the other. That mentality is getting tiresome. Just look in this thread where people saying "Oh EVs shouldn't be pushed and shouldn't never be pushed out and the companies doing it should fail" *sigh*

I Hope e-fuels becomes a real thing for ICE cars but if the production of E-fuels is worse for the environment if we are to care about that at all witch we should in all kind of ways everything from emissions to dangerous chemicals or all the plastic in the environment. We simply should care more about it but not be stupid.

If E-fuels are to be mainstream they have to be environmental friendly from the raw materials needed to produce them to the R&D of them and to its production of them to the end user using them.

There is no point in having giant trucks transporting e-fuels if they ain't viable to be used for the trucks that transports them to the fuel stations in the future.

Same goes for EV's, when you see giant diesel trucks transporting EVs to the shops its also a *sigh* moment.

The problem i am seeing is we are having two "camps" today for and against EVs instead of having them all going forward including R&D for E-fuels. If car companies can make ICE engines be more then 55% effective in usage of its fuels that would solve a lot but the fact that we still haven't been able to produce an ICE engine that is at least 55% effective in using its energy and not wasting it as heat or emissions, (For normal usage not F1) That makes me doubt ICE engines existence in the future. Why haven't they made them 50% effective yet, They have been around for so long do it already or is there other money behind that keeping them ineffective so the oil companies can keep selling their product. If you could have a 90% effective ICE engine we would achieve a lot of the same things we are trying with EVs & E-Fuels and alternatives.

If it goes against physics to make an ICE engine that effective then its case closed for their existence in its current form.

[apez]

I don't get the hate for EVs, while I do understand wanting to preserve some amount of ICE cars.

Let the commuter appliance cars and commercial transit be EVs. Keep ICE for special cars and limit fuel global consumption and pollution. Turn 3/4th of gas stations into charging stations. If every Toyota Rav 4 and Subaru Crosstreck were suddenly EVs it would have no effect on me.

I will never understand why anyone would be upset that someone else is buying EVs.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by apez

I will never understand why anyone would be upset that someone else is buying EVs.

With new legislation intending to spur an increase in charging-station infrastructure and tax rebates for EV, we will soon reach a critical level of EVs which will not only stress our electric grid and infrastructure but will also seriously increase the price of the electric bills for operating our homes.

And, since the majority of the cost of a gallon of gas is actually spent on taxes to build and maintain roads, we will eventually be slapped with tax increases to maintain and build new roads without gas taxes to pay for them. Many states charge a small extra amount on EV registrations to offset the loss of gas-tax revenue, but it won't come close to replacing that revenue source. Essentially all of us without EVs will pay for those EVs purchased by others. Tax rebates for purchasing an EV are not free. Road building and maintenance is not free.

EV owners benefit from the tax breaks while the rest of us will end up paying for it.

[dadzer]

On Fox News 12/21....."Maine forced to delay vote on EV mandate amid widespread power outages"

[10"]

film cameras, vinyl records, combustion engines. They will be around—they will be niche and for people like me just like film and vinyl are! hobbyists and enthusiasts.

totally fine by me! keeping my 1M indefinitely you peeps can have your teslas and iM cars! :P

[GSMCCASH]

Originally Posted by carseatsm5

They don’t have much of a choice unless California and others walk back the 2035 ban.

Everyone in California will be riding bicycles because ICE cars can’t be sold and will probably be the only location on the globe where car ownership dwindles.

[Tallest]

In other news - Frank Weber is retiring, or some such nonsense ahead, as woke brigade in germany wins.

[Dgjo2022X5MC]

Great discussion. I think EVs are clearly in innovator/early adopter phase. I suppose the ‘chasm’ is the question!?

I’ll happily hang onto my full ICE F96. Don’t even desire the mild hybrid with all the battery, electric motor, weight complications. As a matter of fact, for me that regrettably kills interest in the upcoming M5 touring, and other similar variants of ICE/electic combos.

Sustainabke fuels for ICE would be great. maybe the F1 folks can speed things up in that regard (Pun intended).

In any event, that’s my 2 cents.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by apez

I don't get the hate for EVs, while I do understand wanting to preserve some amount of ICE cars.

Let the commuter appliance cars and commercial transit be EVs. Keep ICE for special cars and limit fuel global consumption and pollution. Turn 3/4th of gas stations into charging stations. If every Toyota Rav 4 and Subaru Crosstreck were suddenly EVs it would have no effect on me.

I will never understand why anyone would be upset that someone else is buying EVs.

Because it’s all marketing environmental hype and not real. Meaning someone like me that only puts 5,000 miles a year on my car is helping the environment more not owning an EV as it would take 20 years until that EV had a smaller footprint. Volvo did the study showing when you account for battery environmental harm EVs footprint only offset gas engines at around 100,000 miles.

And as others have said, think of the extra strain on electric grids and that impact on environment, and what around the roads? In cold weather states they will be even worse and more money poured Into them since EVs weigh 25% more and you have stupid people buying cyber trucks who used to drive Prius weighing half as much.

Just saying 😁

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Klaytoven

Thank god. I cant afford an m car YET. I sure don’t want an electric bmw that isnt manual when the time does come😅

..I would LOVE an electric manual coupe from BMW ( a dream )

[Habs]

By 2035 California will be irrelevant. Everyone will have moved to Texas or Florida.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by lonestar22

I think 2023 was the year alot of brands realized the EV sensationalism was not as big as they once once thought. Just 2 years ago alot of brands were going all in on EVs and now they are scaling down. Volvo and Volkswagen come to mind. VW forgot how to build excite g cars and now they're the worst selling brand of the VAG group besides exotics. Volvo isn't developing engines anymore and no one is interested in their EVs so they're going to fall way behind. Then they also have to keep Polestar in business which basically just sells the same cars under a different name. Unless they step it up and become a true Tesla rival I wouldn't be surprised to see Volvo out of the US market in 10 years.

EV are popular but they're still too expensive to build and sell in the $30-$35k range.

[mikeyyy003]

People don’t wanna buy ev because it’s too damn expensive. I have some friends in China and there evs are cheaper than a base trim Camry yet still have 300+ miles range. What do we have here? BMW/Mercedes priced shit that runs 250 miles. Fools will buy them.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Canada is on the same path.

But what do you mean they will have no cars? You do realise other EVs makers will sell new cars. Like BMW will just not be able to sell the gas cars there. And also you can buy gas cars used.

I mean they’ll have to sell whatever they have to sell to satisfy the needs of the citizens.

Used cars. Great point. BMW can send 300 cars to Nevada, put 1,500 miles on each of them, and then sell them in CA as used cars. Probably at a premium.

My point is that politicians make promises they know they’ll never have to back up. This whole thing is corrupted and silly. Let the market evolve naturally. It’s making no impact on the overall environmental impact anyway.

[Evinrude1975]

The level of ambiguity and confusion the politicians have been creating is insane. The automakers cannot realistically come up with a solid strategic plan, since the rules and due dates are constantly changed. Increasing entropy and the uncertainty is a huge gift to the Chinese automakers.

[Evinrude1975]

Originally Posted by mikeyyy003

People don’t wanna buy ev because it’s too damn expensive. I have some friends in China and there evs are cheaper than a base trim Camry yet still have 300+ miles range. What do we have here? BMW/Mercedes priced shit that runs 250 miles. Fools will buy them.

There is an important detail: China’s goverment is financially supporting (and controlling) the industry. Along with the fact they produce batteries with no any particular environmental and labor law concern. It’s a loosing game.