THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Today's Posts
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum 2 Series Pricing, Ordering, European Delivery U.S. lease deals announced - $479/mo for M235i and $359/mo for 228i

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-18-2014, 02:54 PM   #67
maxdriver
Second Lieutenant
maxdriver's Avatar
90
Rep
238
Posts

Drives: ‘23 GRolla; MDX S
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Northeast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i View Post
Only problem with the multiple security deposits, is if at any point you need to get out of your lease and transfer it to someone else, well, you're screwed. Not a whole lot of people in my experience want to pay the large sum of MSD's.
It lowered the MF by 24% over 3 years...8% per year return on my money is the way I look at it. I have no concerns about maintaining the lease. Also not sure if you are accurately portraying the facts when you say "you're screwed" if you opt out early.

This is from my lease paperwork: "You may use some of all of my Security Deposit to pay any amount I owe under this Lease at the end of my Lease Term or upon early termination of the lease. After I have paid my obligations under this Lease, you will refund to me any part of my Security Deposit that is not used to pay what I owe you."

So you don't forfeit the money and how can I or anyone else be "screwed...?"

Last edited by maxdriver; 02-18-2014 at 03:27 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2014, 04:10 PM   #68
johndeere
mhmmmm
Canada
141
Rep
634
Posts

Drives: MS3X
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (2)

Those are some sweet lease prices you guys are getting. Up here the 36 month lease with $4200 down comes up to $751 after taxes. That's a hefty premium over what you guys get.

Last edited by johndeere; 02-18-2014 at 04:16 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2014, 07:40 PM   #69
SmallTownBoy
First Lieutenant
Canada
9
Rep
347
Posts

Drives: '14 M235i 6MT PSS BSM
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South Detroit, Canada

iTrader: (0)

You've left out a few variables, but it seems you're pricing a fully optioned car at the max 24K km/yr. Our lease rates (apr or mf) are higher and our residuals seem a bit lower that quoted in these forums. Also, it seems most people are posting monthly payments before taxes. Your number seems to include our 13% HST monthly. Not apples : apples!
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2014, 09:47 PM   #70
johndeere
mhmmmm
Canada
141
Rep
634
Posts

Drives: MS3X
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy View Post
You've left out a few variables, but it seems you're pricing a fully optioned car at the max 24K km/yr. Our lease rates (apr or mf) are higher and our residuals seem a bit lower that quoted in these forums. Also, it seems most people are posting monthly payments before taxes. Your number seems to include our 13% HST monthly. Not apples : apples!
Incorrect. I priced out a bare bones car (didn't even select the premium package) at 36 months and 20,000km/year. I agree that I did include the tax price, but was still comparing it to some other posted figures of about $520 after tax. That is still a significant price difference, as it is with any lease on any other BMW model between the U.S.
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2014, 11:05 PM   #71
SmallTownBoy
First Lieutenant
Canada
9
Rep
347
Posts

Drives: '14 M235i 6MT PSS BSM
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South Detroit, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Seems quite high, esp with that much down. Is that number from the Canadian configurator? "Bare bones" is CAD$45,000 not incl. PDI, shipping, etc.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2014, 10:17 AM   #72
livestrong191
Enlisted Member
10
Rep
32
Posts

Drives: C350
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Can some one help me I am confused. So for every $1000 a car increases in price or go down in price , does the payment go up or down $30 or $20
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2014, 10:35 AM   #73
pz619
Brigadier General
3325
Rep
3,273
Posts

Drives: F87 M2C 6MT, Tesla Highland 3P
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by livestrong191 View Post
Can some one help me I am confused. So for every $1000 a car increases in price or go down in price , does the payment go up or down $30 or $20
It's not quite that simple. It depends on your money factor, residual value bounced against capitalized cost, length of lease, your local tax rate etc.

We really need all the numbers. In many instances though, a $1000 increase could only increase the payment by $30.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2014, 10:37 AM   #74
BEM-S4
Major General
BEM-S4's Avatar
United_States
4529
Rep
8,942
Posts

Drives: Dinan M235, Dinan Sport Wagon
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (5)

Anyone else miss the days when the 3-series were leasing out in the $300s, 5-series in the $500s, etc.?
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2014, 11:20 AM   #75
l888apex
First Lieutenant
l888apex's Avatar
11
Rep
323
Posts

Drives: #30/740 BSM 1M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ashburn

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619
Quote:
Originally Posted by livestrong191 View Post
Can some one help me I am confused. So for every $1000 a car increases in price or go down in price , does the payment go up or down $30 or $20
It's not quite that simple. It depends on your money factor, residual value bounced against capitalized cost, length of lease, your local tax rate etc.

We really need all the numbers. In many instances though, a $1000 increase could only increase the payment by $30.
Exactly. $30 per month is for $1,000 down as it goes fully into the cap cost.

Way to figure for a car MSRP (roughly) is to take the increase ($1,000) * opposite of residual / term. Usually works out closer to $12-$15 per thousand.

And obviously, adding down reduces payment and adding price increases it.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2014, 12:45 PM   #76
livestrong191
Enlisted Member
10
Rep
32
Posts

Drives: C350
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

The reason I ask about the $1000 is because I have never leased and working the numbers to get a payment or even trying to figure out a price point to negotiate with the dealer to get my monthly payment on a lease is confusing me. BUT the lease fits my lifestyle by changing cars every three years, low mileage driving. I have learnt from this forum NOT to put money down on a lease but put security deposits down.

All I want is:
BMW 228i
M-Package
Estroil Blue

MSRP:$36,575
DealerPrice :$35477 that's 3% off

1)WHat would my payment be 36month 12K and ZERO$$ deposit
2) What should I be paying for this car or approach the dealer as a fair offer
Appreciate 0
      02-20-2014, 10:09 PM   #77
BMW F22
Major General
BMW F22's Avatar
United_States
3640
Rep
9,783
Posts

Drives: ///M235i
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (8)

^ www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm
Appreciate 0
      02-20-2014, 10:33 PM   #78
five3three
Major
164
Rep
1,053
Posts

Drives: m2c
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: VA

iTrader: (3)

$452/month if your acquisition fee is 725 and rolled in the lease.

Not included in that number is your taxes depending on your state and whatever other fees such as processing and tags/titling.
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2014, 03:41 PM   #79
wmo168
Lieutenant
41
Rep
584
Posts

Drives: Need one!
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
Reviews for the CLA45 have been quite good. Reviews for the A45 have been even better (hopefully we end up getting that in the States).

The quote you referred to was attributed to the standard CLA (a CLA250).

The CLA45 isn't a CLA250 with an AMG badge (I don't think you were trying to assert otherwise). As you know, it gets a vastly different treatment with respect to driving dynamics. It also benefits from better (i.e., premium) materials (e.g., two-tone Recaro perforated leather seats, Nappa leather/alcantara steering wheel, MB-Tex-covered dash with contrast stitching) and additional technological features.

Eventually, I think the M235i will end up being a great value. I just was surprised when after building a few of them the estimated payments weren't far off of what I was paying for a nearly fully loaded F30 M Sport 335i.

Of course the same could be said about the CLA45. If you tick every box the payments swell to silly amounts.
CL45 has no manual tran! That's sucks!
__________________
CurrentNone! RETIRED [15' GLA250][14' M235i F22 AW-ED 06/16/14][12' 335i F30 AW-ED 05/01/11 PCD 07/01/11] [11' M3 E93 MW-ED 08/13/09 PCD 10/14/09] [09' 135i E82 AW] [07' 335i E90 SB]

[ED Photo 12'] [ED Photo 11'] [ED Photo 09'] [PCD Photo 09']
Appreciate 0
      02-21-2014, 10:53 PM   #80
phoenixbmwlife
Brigadier General
phoenixbmwlife's Avatar
United_States
1908
Rep
4,123
Posts

Drives: M235i & G30 540i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boynton Beach

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 BMW/M235i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmo168 View Post
CL45 has no manual tran! That's sucks!
I got quoted a lease on a CLA45 from Frank at Mercedes Benz Palm Beach. MSRP was around $54k. He said it would be around $750 pr month + tax with $5,000 up front for 10k/36mths. When I asked the details on money factor and residuals I never got a response back. LOL
__________________
Lack of money is not the problem. It is merely a symptom of what's going on inside of you! - T Harv Eker

Follow me on Insta

https://www.instagram.com/bmwm_life_/
https://www.instagram.com/autogiftua/
https://www.instagram.com/phoenixbmwlife/
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2014, 11:54 AM   #81
ZKing1208
Second Lieutenant
222
Rep
250
Posts

Drives: 2016 328i Msport MG
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Sacramento, Ca

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kadify
Lease payments of $479.00 for 36 months based on MSRP of $46,325.00


So if you get only the premium package and alpine white paint.
Keep in mind that the national ad by bmw regarding 4204 out of pocket is before fees like taxes due, documentation fee and DMV fees. 5085.21 is the real out of pocket amount if you do the national ad lease offer. Of course the 479 is a pretax figure as well. After taxes you're payment will be in the 520 range. You can of course buy this offer payment down with more out of pocket. Two separate dealerships went over this with me and it was exact to the penny. Just an FYI.
__________________
2018 M3 Comp
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2014, 01:26 PM   #82
BEM-S4
Major General
BEM-S4's Avatar
United_States
4529
Rep
8,942
Posts

Drives: Dinan M235, Dinan Sport Wagon
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mz1981 View Post
Keep in mind that the national ad by bmw regarding 4204 out of pocket is before fees like taxes due, documentation fee and DMV fees. 5085.21 is the real out of pocket amount if you do the national ad lease offer. Of course the 479 is a pretax figure as well. After taxes you're payment will be in the 520 range. You can of course buy this offer payment down with more out of pocket. Two separate dealerships went over this with me and it was exact to the penny. Just an FYI.
You're still better off going the extra security deposit route than the cap cost reduction. You'll have an extra grand tied up for 36 months but you'll save yourself $1K over the term of the lease compared to putting $3K down.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2014, 03:15 PM   #83
Cosa Nostra
Banned
33
Rep
267
Posts

Drives: 335i coupe
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sicily

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3magine View Post
Those are some sweet lease prices you guys are getting. Up here the 36 month lease with $4200 down comes up to $751 after taxes. That's a hefty premium over what you guys get.
+1, yeah we Canadians always get screwed LOL.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2014, 03:18 PM   #84
Cosa Nostra
Banned
33
Rep
267
Posts

Drives: 335i coupe
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sicily

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEEM3R View Post
It's true. We've leased 6 cars and never have we put a down payment for this reason.
I've never put any $ down on a lease (I figure I might as well give them as little $ upfront as possible, cause that's why I'm leasing in the first place; and 2nd it makes it much easier to compare lease deals). However, I didn't know about this other valuable info why never to put $ down!
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2014, 03:29 PM   #85
Cosa Nostra
Banned
33
Rep
267
Posts

Drives: 335i coupe
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sicily

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdriver View Post
It lowered the MF by 24% over 3 years...8% per year return on my money is the way I look at it. I have no concerns about maintaining the lease. Also not sure if you are accurately portraying the facts when you say "you're screwed" if you opt out early.

This is from my lease paperwork: "You may use some of all of my Security Deposit to pay any amount I owe under this Lease at the end of my Lease Term or upon early termination of the lease. After I have paid my obligations under this Lease, you will refund to me any part of my Security Deposit that is not used to pay what I owe you."

So you don't forfeit the money and how can I or anyone else be "screwed...?"
I'm not convinced that using MSDs to lower your lease costs is the way to go or not. I think I'd rather keep the money and invest it myself, rather than give BMW yet more multiple security deposits (essentially a laon over course of the lease) so they can invest it. I'd be interested in how u came-up w an 8% return in more detail perhapsm but I think I'd still rather invest the money.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2014, 07:06 PM   #86
grp2c
New Member
1
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: m235i
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Southern California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosa Nostra View Post
I'm not convinced that using MSDs to lower your lease costs is the way to go or not. I think I'd rather keep the money and invest it myself, rather than give BMW yet more multiple security deposits (essentially a laon over course of the lease) so they can invest it. I'd be interested in how u came-up w an 8% return in more detail perhapsm but I think I'd still rather invest the money.
Cosa,
I recently ordered a m235i and I've been trying to figure out if using the MSDs is beneficial as well. I figured out how you come up with a 8% or more rate of return.

First I used the lease guide calculator below with the MF of .0013 and found the my total lease cost was about 21700.

Then I plugged in a MF of .00081 (7 MSDs lowers MF by .00049) and total lease cost is about 20400.

The amount saved is $1300 by doing 7 MSDs.

7 MSDs for me = $4200

So an investment of $4200 nets me $4200 (return of deposit) + $1300 (amount saved) or a total of $5500 after 3 years

Using the internal rate of return calculator below, my rate of return is 9.4%.

For me this is definitely a good investment.

My only concern was that if the car is totaled they might not return the MSDs, but as far as I have read since the BMW leases include gap insurance you would get back the MSDs. If someone knows differently please reply.

http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm
https://www.dinkytown.net/java/IRRReturn.html
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2014, 09:19 PM   #87
maxdriver
Second Lieutenant
maxdriver's Avatar
90
Rep
238
Posts

Drives: ‘23 GRolla; MDX S
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Northeast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosa Nostra View Post
I'm not convinced that using MSDs to lower your lease costs is the way to go or not. I think I'd rather keep the money and invest it myself, rather than give BMW yet more multiple security deposits (essentially a laon over course of the lease) so they can invest it. I'd be interested in how u came-up w an 8% return in more detail perhapsm but I think I'd still rather invest the money.
What I said. The MSD's allows for a lower interest rate on the lease....(a lower MF in lease terms). Worked out to be 8% cheaper per year; times 3 years is 24%. The MSD's are an investment that returns the principle and guarantees the return...

I'm an investor myself and I did alot better than 8% last year. Having said that, I'll take a guaranteed 24% over 3 years all day long my friend...
Appreciate 0
      03-11-2014, 08:57 PM   #88
TractionControlOff
Private First Class
6
Rep
117
Posts

Drives: 2023 M340i Dinan Exhaust
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Dallas

iTrader: (0)

Good points grp2c and maxdriver. There are a couple other considerations that bolster your calcs: 1. The savings of 8%/year is guaranteed. We all know about the .1 or .2% that many guaranteed investments/savings are paying these days. Investing in the market is not guaranteed so that should be considered. 2. If you didn't save the 8% you would have to pay it with after-tax dollars so you should compute the tax-equivalent yield. Assuming you are in the 28% tax bracket, that would make your tax-equivalent return (the return you would need before taxes to net 8%) around 11.11%. That's close to the market's non-guaranteed average historical return. If you are in a higher tax bracket, it's even better.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:35 PM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST