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      01-30-2014, 01:25 PM   #1
PK2348
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Little need for 2 Series Gran Coupe says BMW Board Member Herbert Diess?

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BMW's development boss has revealed the company is unlikely to offer a competitor to the Audi A3 Sedan and Mercedes CLA.

Speaking to Wards Auto, Dr. Herbert Diess [BMW board member] said the company sees little need for a sedan smaller than the 3-Series in the United States. He went on to say he sees a “high risk of substitution” where customers would buy the smaller car - presumably the 1-Series sedan or 2-Series Gran Coupe - instead of a more expensive model like the 3-Series.

Speaking of small cars, Diess confirmed the company will launch the 2-Series Convertible “toward the end of the year.” He declined to go into specifics but the model will likely share engines with the 2-Series Coupe.

When asked about the status of the jointly-developed BMW-Toyota sports car, he said "It’s a complex task. We need to decide which cars would they be and when they would launch." Diess went on to say "We think it makes sense for both companies, but it is a car architecture that has to suit both companies. I think we will have a final decision in a few months.”

Source: Wards Auto
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      01-30-2014, 01:58 PM   #2
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Thanks! Good info.
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      01-30-2014, 05:13 PM   #3
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Well this sucks...

I was waiting for an e46 sized BMW 4 door to come back.

Last edited by JB3CK24; 01-30-2014 at 05:34 PM.
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      01-30-2014, 05:17 PM   #4
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There are CLAs and Audi A3s to fill this gap.
BMW should spend more development money on making a Halo car (aka M8)
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      01-30-2014, 05:20 PM   #5
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BMW is famous for building the wrong cars:

Z1 (FWD) instead of Z4 M
M3 GranTourer instead of M3 Touring
X1 M instead of M7
i8 instead of M1
2 Series ActiveTourer instead of 2 Series GranCoupé
4 Series "GranTourer" instead of 4 Series GranCoupé


Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Bubble View Post
There are CLAs and Audi A3s to fill this gap.
BMW should spend more development money on making a Halo car (aka M8)
CLA and A3 are FWD(-based), 2er GranCoupé would be RWD. If BMW doesn't have the money to build a 4 door with trunk F2X, they'll have even less money to build a supercar from scratch. BMW doesn't have even one sportscar in their portfolio.


Yes, SCOTT, I know they are 20 years ahead of competition with i8.
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      01-30-2014, 05:21 PM   #6
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It's a bad argument.
Sure people will buy a smaller BMW sedan than the 3 series. But without it, they'll buy more CLA's and A3 sedans.

Why is BMW so dead set on driving away young potential lifelong customers?

Mercedes will continue to outpace BMW with these types of positions.
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      01-30-2014, 05:22 PM   #7
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So BMW would rather force a larger car down people's throat than a car with the size that they actually want? What happened to filling every niche possible?

Scott, please say it ain't so.
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      01-30-2014, 05:23 PM   #8
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Thank god. What a waste of time and effort that car would have been.
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      01-30-2014, 05:24 PM   #9
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If there's overwhelming demand for a small four door, BMW has the option to send 2ER 4-door hatch.

Last edited by Vector Pilot; 01-30-2014 at 05:34 PM.
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      01-30-2014, 05:26 PM   #10
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Bmw made all these useless models and now says a compact sedan is not needed here when everybody is waiting for a compact sedan....wtf are you smoking

The 3 series have gotten too big (aka lincoln towncar) and alot of ppl would like a 2 series size sedan like the e46
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      01-30-2014, 05:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
BMW is famous for building the wrong cars:

Z1 (FWD) instead of Z4 M
M3 GranTourer instead of M3 Touring
X1 M instead of M7
i8 instead of M1
2 Series ActiveTourer instead of 2 Series GranCoupé
4 Series "GranTourer" instead of 4 Series GranCoupé

I think you've maybe gotten confused. There is no FWD Z1, there is no M3GT, there is no X1M, there is no 4GT, and there is about to be launched a 4GC....

However, I would also like to see a sub 3 series 4 door saloon car. I'd imagine that Audi and Mercedes are going to clean up.
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      01-30-2014, 05:33 PM   #12
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I was hoping that my next car would be either an M235i GC or M2GC somewhere down the line. Please let the 2 series GC be a reality.
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      01-30-2014, 05:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hova00 View Post
Thank god. What a waste of time and effort that car would have been.
You're so right...

Because the 5 Series GT, X6, X4, X1, 3 Series GT, 4 Series GC and all these other unneeded cars are SO much better and worth BMW's time.
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      01-30-2014, 05:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB3CK24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hova00 View Post
Thank god. What a waste of time and effort that car would have been.
You're so right...

Because the 5 Series GT, X6, X4, X1, 3 Series GT, 4 Series GC and all these other unneeded cars are SO much better and worth BMW's time.
Those were a waste of time too.
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      01-30-2014, 05:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB3CK24
Well this sucks...

I was waiting for the size of a e46 BMW 4 door to come back.
Agree. I've owned an e36, 2 e46s, and an e90 as well as my e82. The f30 has gotten too portly for my tastes. I'm tempted by the m3 but know that it's size will keep me on the purchasing sidelines until an m2 or a 2 based sedan equivalent comes out.
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      01-30-2014, 05:43 PM   #16
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The M2 Gran Coupe would have been awesome. The 3 series has gotten too big (owner of F30 335i m-sport).
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      01-30-2014, 05:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
I think you've maybe gotten confused. There is no FWD Z1, there is no M3GT, there is no X1M, there is no 4GT, and there is about to be launched a 4GC....

However, I would also like to see a sub 3 series 4 door saloon car. I'd imagine that Audi and Mercedes are going to clean up.
Hey Matski,

Levi is talking about future cars in development. Specifically, Scott has alluded to a Z1 car built on the FWD UKL architecture in the future, a GT version of the F80, and a possible M version of the F48 X1 (also UKL). As for the 4GT, it's a reference to the fact that 4GC is not a true 4-door version of the F32 a la the 6GC, but rather a 5-door version -- hence the "GT" reference.
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      01-30-2014, 05:47 PM   #18
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Knowing BMW they will still do it. Can't see them conceding the "affordable-luxury" market to Audi and Mercedes when there is clearly money to be made
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      01-30-2014, 05:47 PM   #19
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I agree... BMW has a history of not bringing out models/items that would be in demand.


-No 1st gen Z4 M - Z4 M later announced - these cars continue to have great resale
-No Second Gen Z4M - Z435is later offerred - hasn't captured the market at all.
-No E46 M3 sedan - 330 ZHP later offered
-i8 instead of second Gen M1
-2 Series ActiveTourer instead of 2 Series GranCoupé
-not offering a limited slip Differentials in sport sedans - now being corrected as they begin to offer the M performance catalog


Clearly the comments indicated by this BMW rep show they are still too afraid to really focus on a car that is below the almighty bread and butter 3 (now 3/4 series). Many dealers unwittingly attempt to step buyers from a 1 series to a 3 series sedan as opposed to simply selling a 1 series to a happy owner and then hoping that person moves upmarket or returns for their second BMW purchase. The ones that can afford a 3 series or fit a 3 series in their garage are ok.. but many customers leave and go to Infiniti (G35/G37) Mercedes (CL), or Lexus IS.

The fact that the current 3 series is actually larger inside than an E39 5 series is a clear indicator that the 3 series has completely moved up to a different market segment. Rather than bring in a small car to take up this gap... instead.. they will continue to lose the overall sales crown to Mercedes in the US because Mercedes has

- realized a small car is needed
- dropped to a price point below 30K for an entry level luxury sedan

BMW has the X1, but it is still priced above 30K and is an SUV and not a sedan.


Thousands of E36 fans are simply going to continue to be alienated if this is actually true. What is AMAZING is that Mr. Diess ACKNOWLEDGES that the take rate of a 2 series sedan would be high. That, my friends is ignorance in action.

Hopefully the rest of the board doesn't have the same short sightedness that Mr. Diess is afflicted with.
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Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 01-30-2014 at 05:55 PM.
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      01-30-2014, 06:01 PM   #20
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The comments here are pretty funny. If BMW were to say there would be a 2-Series Gran Coupe, everyone would be "WTH?" or "Another pointless model?", etc. Just shows you can't please everyone.
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      01-30-2014, 06:06 PM   #21
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I just don't believe this info. They'll build it. Mr. Diess is just bluffing imo.
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      01-30-2014, 06:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
BMW is famous for building the wrong cars:

Z1 (FWD) instead of Z4 M
M3 GranTourer instead of M3 Touring
X1 M instead of M7
i8 instead of M1
2 Series ActiveTourer instead of 2 Series GranCoupé
4 Series "GranTourer" instead of 4 Series GranCoupé
Levi is famous for posting total bullshit 'facts.' Half of the cars, that you mention first, don't exist !
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