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      10-25-2012, 04:15 AM   #67
hwelvaar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
But why should a small car be significantly cheaper than a large car?
Did you ever see a review of a Ferrari 458 where it was mentioned that you could get a larger car for less money?
It should be cheaper because it is within the same brand, within the logical line-up of the brands different models.
Therefore it has to cost less than the same package (motor, interior, options, ...) from a larger model.
So a 235i M sport should cost less than a 335i M sport.
A 220d should cost less than a 320d.

Ofcourse a 235i can cost more than a 320d.

Don't understand why you don't understand this ? It's simple economics.
A smaller car uses less material, thus costs less, than its own identically configured bigger brother.

And yes, there have been many Ferrari vs M5 debates.
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      10-25-2012, 04:21 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will@StageX View Post
can someone explain to me the new series numbers?

from what i understand:
like 1 series is now entry level
2 series is like sport light weight like former 1
3 series is same but only sedan
4 series is 3 series coupe?
5 series is luxury sedan
6 series used to be luxury sports coupe but now they have sedan so its just kinda like luxury sport cars
7 is ultra luxury sedan
1 = hot hatch / entry level (both 2-door and 4-door)
2 = coupe / entry level (former 1 serie coupe) (both 2-door coupe and 4-door gran coupe)
3 = sedan (4 door only)
4 = coupe (former 3-series coupe) (both 2-door coupe and 4-door gran coupe)
5 = luxury sedan (4 door only)
6 = luxury coupe (both 2-door coupe and 4-door gran coupe)
7 = mega sedan
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      10-25-2012, 05:02 AM   #69
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Nice shape, a bit too upright in the nose for a coupe. it should be more like the 6er and slope back from the centre of the grill

If the image shown is based on the 1er platform and correct proportions, a 6 could be shoehorned in
The design's front is very upright in the nose (grills) like the F20/F21. (suggests they still need the engine bay length for a 6)

My guess is it will either have the 125i/328i's powerplant and outputs and the 135i as the go fast or they will morf the front to slope more and run with the 125i/328i's powerplant and outputs and could go for that persistantly rumoured 'M' 4 pot engine as the M car.

This render is out there for the feedback it will generate.
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      10-25-2012, 05:41 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
Don't understand why you don't understand this ? It's simple economics.
A smaller car uses less material, thus costs less, than its own identically configured bigger brother.
But my point is that they are not necessarily identically configured. Maybe the small car is more of an enthusiast car, while the large car is a more simple utility car. A more sporty car is usually more expensive than a family transporter.

Because of the typically American thought that bigger must be better, the small car often ends up with cheaper solutions. I don't like that. Now we see more and more small premium cars, and then it is natural that the small car can be more expensive than bigger models from the same brand.

Examples of a large cheap car is the VW Caddy Maxi.
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      10-25-2012, 06:33 AM   #71
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Wow, I love it. I hope the final product will be like this!
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      10-25-2012, 06:46 AM   #72
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Front end is a bit strange, but everything else is ok.
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      10-25-2012, 07:07 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenY. View Post
Wow, I love it. I hope the final product will be like this!



By the looks of your pic, you are expecting a 'HOT' BMW then

Hope you get your wish
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      10-25-2012, 07:25 AM   #74
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Looks tits. I want one!!! I'm not spending almost 70k on a 4 gran coupe. I'll get the 2 instead!!
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      10-25-2012, 07:28 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSERGEI-BY View Post
Front end is a bit strange, but everything else is ok.
yeah, side and rear and looks great!

Front end is a little strange. I think the headlights look good. But could have been have a bit more like the F30 headlights. A little tinier, and sleeker, but still agressive.
BMW kidneys are a little too big.
Bumper design, at least on M-sport version should be be a bit more agressive.
Hood looks quite huge and bulgy. The car is a a bit chubby from that front/side picture. But looks good in side profile.
BMW should take some of this design into the front in my opinion:



BUT, all of that is just nitpicking. Best looking "5-door 1-series" to date.
This in coupe version as an M2 should look fantastic!

If I was in charge of the car I would probably make a hatchback style trunk, with the coupe lines it already have. Then it would be much more practical. And it would be a nice thing between the 1-series hatcback and the 3-series sedan.

If a car journalist complains about the rear seats being small, or the headroom in the rear is bad for people above 182cm, and it should have been larger. I will kick them in the ... It is a 2-series! Not a 3/4 series. Or a 5, 6, 7 series. It is supposed to be smaller and lighter!
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      10-25-2012, 08:05 AM   #76
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perfect way to explain it!!!!!!

Make this thing a diesel and throw a manual gear box on it ill buy two, at the same damn time haha


Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
1 = hot hatch / entry level (both 2-door and 4-door)
2 = coupe / entry level (former 1 serie coupe) (both 2-door coupe and 4-door gran coupe)
3 = sedan (4 door only)
4 = coupe (former 3-series coupe) (both 2-door coupe and 4-door gran coupe)
5 = luxury sedan (4 door only)
6 = luxury coupe (both 2-door coupe and 4-door gran coupe)
7 = mega sedan
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      10-25-2012, 08:20 AM   #77
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I agree with dillbob3124, DrivenByE30 & M3 Adjuster on the issue of what will the over-all size be for this car actually be. Any bigger than the E46 and it will be a definite disappointment for the enthusiast but if the looks are right then that will win the 'majority' over.

Given how car manufactures and not just BMW like to increase the size of their cars at every new change in model. It would be nice to think this new 2'er would be in between the E36 & E46.

However, as DrivenByE30 mentions it is more than likely to be at least E46 size. If this is to be the case I just hope that there is an strict condition on the designers not to let it ever go beyond an E46 size.
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      10-25-2012, 08:26 AM   #78
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The front end is probably so upright due to the new crash standards of cars these days. Belt-lines and hoods have to be higher than ever before. And on a smaller(ish) car, it's going to be that much more obvious due to the proportions of said vehicle.

There was a good article in Car and Driver a couple months back talking about the way it has influenced the car-design world, wether we like it or not. I'll see if I can link the article later.
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      10-25-2012, 08:28 AM   #79
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that looks great!
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      10-25-2012, 08:28 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
Looks tits. I want one!!! I'm not spending almost 70k on a 4 gran coupe. I'll get the 2 instead!!
Yep, but I'm thinking of the ///M variations. The M4 GC could top $85K nicely loaded. I'd rather see myself in a M2 GC, completely loaded for <$70K
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      10-25-2012, 08:29 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jai5w4 View Post
There was a good article in Car and Driver a couple months back talking about the way it has influenced the car-design world, wether we like it or not. I'll see if I can link the article later.
I'd like the read that. I subscribe to the mag, but may have passed over the article in print.
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      10-25-2012, 08:43 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
But why should a small car be significantly cheaper than a large car? People don't buy small cars because they can't afford a large car, but because they want a small car. Even if it costs more.

Small cars have quite a few advantages. They are usually lighter with better handling. They are easier to park and drive around narrow city streets. It takes less time to clean it. It takes less time to heat it up or cool it down. It is less likely to get stuck in slippery conditions. It consumes less energy/fuel. It pollutes less. It has less brake lining and tire wear.

Did you ever see a review of a Ferrari 458 where it was mentioned that you could get a larger car for less money?

The F30 (3-series) would have to be significantly cheaper than the F20 for me to even consider buying one. It is simply too large.
While by no means I like big cars, I strongly disagree I should pay more for them because:'

they use less material
usually have less equipment as standard
usually have cheaper materials or less sound insulation
usually have less leg-storage room, usually do not have latest technology
usually due to size are not as safe given a collision with a bigger car
usually are powered by smaller cheaper engines
usually use basic tech (i.e. metal vs aluminium etc)
their long distance handicap is an equal to big car's city driving handicap

Not to mention, a small car generally looks a bit wierd and is a challenge to make it look nice, though boy some try hard (Mini is a good example, this I3 bmw is not bad either). But for general size, 3 was perfect before it grew.

Let's put it another way - if I can seat behind myself in the 2er grand coup, without hitting with my head the ceiling or the seats ahead - I'm sold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
But my point is that they are not necessarily identically configured. Maybe the small car is more of an enthusiast car, while the large car is a more simple utility car. A more sporty car is usually more expensive than a family transporter.

Because of the typically American thought that bigger must be better, the small car often ends up with cheaper solutions. I don't like that. Now we see more and more small premium cars, and then it is natural that the small car can be more expensive than bigger models from the same brand.

Examples of a large cheap car is the VW Caddy Maxi.
Yeah but we compared within BMW range. Within that range I would expect the 220d GC to cost around SAME as 320d but less than 420d GC or 420d Coupe. So based on this assumption which is fairly accurate based on their pricing, I would say a 320d might make more sense.

The only advantage of a small car I can see is that it will hold price better - but I don't buy cars brand new so for me it's not issue to worry about bleeding 10k-15k EUR per year in depreciation.

BTW, I'm having a pure EUro angle here, not from US.
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Last edited by Tallest; 10-25-2012 at 08:50 AM.
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      10-25-2012, 08:46 AM   #83
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Take my money too
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      10-25-2012, 08:48 AM   #84
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I really, really like where the 2-series is going. I love the size of my 135i but sometimes wish it had 4-doors and maybe a tad more rear leg room. My previous E90 335i definitely had more room but the car was too big after coming up from a Golf 1.8T and a B5 S4, so the 135i felt just right. The new F30 is even bigger so that's not an option.

The other day I told my wife that my next car would be blue and have an M in the name. I think this is a sign!


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      10-25-2012, 08:53 AM   #85
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Hot, very hot. The perfect BMW for those who feel the 3 has gotten too big.
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      10-25-2012, 08:55 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgaffney004 View Post
M2 gran coupe please
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      10-25-2012, 09:21 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgaffney004 View Post
M2 gran coupe please
+1 I was waiting for the M4 GC but I prefer the 2
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      10-25-2012, 09:28 AM   #88
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Yeah the profile looks great but I am not loving the front or the back
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