[xantdieselx]

So I'm about 2.5 years into my lease on a 2013 328i x-drive. I've been in love with the M235i since I drove it at the BMW performance driving center last year. Its between the M235i and the 340i with THP for my next whip.

In RI, at least for me x-drive is a must. I've only driven the rear wheel drive version of the M and I loved it. Wife and I decided we'd take a ride to our local dealer to see if they had a 15/16 x-drive available to test drive.

We look around and see a few 228's and one 235i. Its a vert rwd. We walk in, salesman approaches and asks "What can we help you accomplish today?" I explain the situation and ask if the have any 16' M235i's in stock or coming in. I tell him that I've driven the rwd but am interested in the x-drive. To which he replies "BMW doesn't make the M235i in x-drive."

I pause, at first in disbelief that someone could know so little about the product they sell, and politely say "BMW absolutely makes the M235i in x-drive." He walks away befuddled and pulls up BMW USA on his computer. The look on his face was priceless when he sees that he is incorrect.

He apologizes and proceeds to tell me that another salesman told him this some time ago. If that wasn't bad enough, he goes on to tell me that "Almost everyone who buys an M car here buys it without test driving it." I just replied, "I would never spend over 50k on a car that I had never driven. I assume that I'm the minority."

Needless to say the conversation was a bit awkward after that. Before we walked out I let the salesperson know (In a nice way) that I would never buy a car from a salesman who knew less about the car than I do.

[drivethemachine]

Just find another dealer that knows what they're talking about and have one in stock to test drive. Search for inventory online or call around. If you're willing to travel further down, I can recommend a couple of dealerships in Connecticut that will absolutely make sure you get what you want.

[krhodes1]

Realistically most of us who care about cars enough to hang out on a model-specific board know more about the cars than 99.95% of car salespeople. I don't really see this as a big issue, though I would expect a sales dude to at least know what models are available to sell.

I ordered my M235i without a test drive. The chances of finding a stickshift M235i sitting on a dealer lot in the Northeast are effectively zero. My local dealer has had one single M235i for stock period, and it sold in less than a week. And of course, it was X-drive. But I had rented several 228is, so I knew more-or-less what I was getting. And I certainly was not disappointed. I had also never driven a stickshift e91 before ordering my other BMW. Not that unusual when you want something out of the mainstream.

[xantdieselx]

Originally Posted by drivethemachine

Just find another dealer that knows what they're talking about and have one in stock to test drive. Search for inventory online or call around. If you're willing to travel further down, I can recommend a couple of dealerships in Connecticut that will absolutely make sure you get what you want.

I agree. This dealer is literally 5 minutes away from my house so it was worth a trip just to see. I bought my last car at Herb Chambers in Sudbury. Its about an hour ride from here. Service is top notch and sales is pretty knowledgeable.

I made the mistake of not thoroughly test driving my current car and have been sort of regretting it for 2.5 years. Not going to happen again.

[overcoil]

Agree with krhodes1 (post above), I've delt with accountants and lawyers that were comparably way less knowledgeable and significantly much more reluctant to admit there ignorance of their profession.

[MrBimmerM235i]

wtf?

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by MrBimmerM235i

wtf?

Point was a salesperson not knowing a model comes in X-drive isn't reason to quit that dealership, most people don't know wtf they're doing or at least do it poorly.

[Hemisedan]

I ordered my M235i without a test drive. The chances of finding a stickshift M235i sitting on a dealer lot in the Northeast are effectively zero. My local dealer has had one single M235i for stock period, and it sold in less than a week. And of course, it was X-drive. But I had rented several 228is, so I knew more-or-less what I was getting. And I certainly was not disappointed. I had also never driven a stickshift e91 before ordering my other BMW. Not that unusual when you want something out of the mainstream.[/QUOTE]

I'm doing the same here in Iowa. The local dealer is in love with X-drives, period. All the 2 series that they have on hand now, and this is the most that I've seen there, are all X-drives, not that it's bad, just my cup of tea, and forget about a BMW manual here, as well.

I've ordered out of state, for a PCD delivery in March, yes that's out there aways, but that's my schedule. My MINI lease is up in March/April, so early March deliver, without a test drive of a m235i manual. By the way, I finally admitted to my wife today that this will be a manual. Some may love their automatics and how fast and all they are, but I love the control of a manual.

I did drive a 228i six months ago, it was a nice ride until an 18 wheeler decided that he wanted my lane with me in it, yes bad scene, but nobody was hurt. Plus, that sold me on the quality of the BMW 2 series as the car took it without even feeling the crunch, much. Still $11K damage. I think that the dealership pushed that up a bit, especially since it was their body shop that did all the work. But all that is another story.

Ordered without a test drive.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Its a big miss....the guy is either new, not trained well and/or just doesnt take pride in what he's doing for a living.

But I've resigned myself long-ago that few sales people know the vehicle as well as me...

[bimmercar]

i had a sales guy be shocked when i told him a 2 series(m235) had more horsepower than 3 series (335i), haha

[MikeT]

Originally Posted by xantdieselx

Before we walked out I let the salesperson know (In a nice way) that I would never buy a car from a salesman who knew less about the car than I do.

Why not? He's just selling it, not building it. If he's got a good price and is an easy enough person to deal with, does it really matter if he knows less about the car than you do?

Heck, I imagine that many if not most of the folks on this board know more about the specs of their cars than their sales people. Why? Because we're obsessive-compulsive over cars, while for many sales people it's just a job. They don't really care.

[adema24]

Originally Posted by MikeT

Why not? He's just selling it, not building it. If he's got a good price and is an easy enough person to deal with, does it really matter if he knows less about the car than you do?

Heck, I imagine that many if not most of the folks on this board know more about the specs of their cars than their sales people. Why? Because we're obsessive-compulsive over cars, while for many sales people it's just a job. They don't really care.

We may know the more intricate details about certain models, but a salesman not knowing something major like this is just plain stupid. And then listening to what someone else says and not checking up on it yourself is just plain dumb as well.

Point is, why should I give my money (commission) to someone who clearly is dumb and just doesn't give a f***.

I'm not the government, I don't give handouts. If they (salesman) want my money, they will have to earn it.

[BPC]

typically, when i buy a car, even after just a few days of research, I know more about the model and its options than the salesman.

for example, when i was considering an audi A3 convertible, I had to tell the salesman that - no matter what trim line i went with - it did not have power seats or the garage door opener (homelink). I learned that with only a few hours of research. The salesman told me it absolutely had those. So i told him to show me an A3 convertible on the lot with either of those features. when he could not - I told him to show me on the website that they could be ordered. he tried, and failed. I honestly hope it was a lesson for him.

When i checked out the BMW convertibles, I was pleasantly surprised by how knowledgable the salesman was. I had researched them for a day or two, but he knew his business and knew much more than I did. He gave me some great advice that ultimately steered me to a much better fit of a car. I went so far as to let his manager know that it was the first time i had encountered a salesman who knew more about the product i was interested in than I did. He earned his commission.

while my BMW buying experience was great - it amazes me how car salesmen in general do not do the basic research on the products they sell. Even if they are naturally great salespeople, knowing your product will only make you better. Hell, if i had that job, i would know not only my product, but all the details/strengths/weaknesses of the primary competitors.

[Vegetable]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

Realistically most of us who care about cars enough to hang out on a model-specific board know more about the cars than 99.95% of car salespeople. I don't really see this as a big issue, though I would expect a sales dude to at least know what models are available to sell.

I ordered my M235i without a test drive. The chances of finding a stickshift M235i sitting on a dealer lot in the Northeast are effectively zero. My local dealer has had one single M235i for stock period, and it sold in less than a week. And of course, it was X-drive. But I had rented several 228is, so I knew more-or-less what I was getting. And I certainly was not disappointed. I had also never driven a stickshift e91 before ordering my other BMW. Not that unusual when you want something out of the mainstream.

Where did you "rent" "several" 228i's? I'm assuming you mean you received 228i's as loaners, but want to clarify...If I'm correct and you indeed got 228i's on "several" occasions as loaners than your BMW dealership is awesome.. I always get 328d's, 328i's, X5s, etc. all of which are not nearly as fun to drive as a 228i.

[adema24]

Sixt. They're a German rental car company and you can rent a vast amount of German cars with them here in the states.

[doccyber]

This is nothing new for me. Every time I have bought a new car, I knew more about the car than a salesperson I dealt with. Because I do massive amt of research when buying a new car. It's just that I can't expect that the salesperson to know everything about all the models that the brand is selling.

[dalrx]

Why is x drive a must? Because of snow? Truth be told I live in a major snow belt on the great lakes and we get dumped on here. I have driven rwd stick bmw for last 7 yrs with just snow tires and have had no issue getting around. X drive is over rated as well as all types of awd 4 x4 etc if you are just doing normal dd.

[Tony88]

Originally Posted by dalrx

Why is x drive a must? Because of snow? Truth be told I live in a major snow belt on the great lakes and we get dumped on here. I have driven rwd stick bmw for last 7 yrs with just snow tires and have had no issue getting around. X drive is over rated as well as all types of awd 4 x4 etc if you are just doing normal dd.

I do agree with you to a point. I live in Alaska and drove my RWD E46 325 through 4 winters as it was my only vehicle at the time. I threw a nice set of Blizzaks on it and I was really surprised just how well it did in the snow and ice. I actually proved to a few people I know that a BMW is very capable in the winter when they all told me I was an idiot for buying a car that can't handle snow. So is X-drive absolutely necessary? No, but it would sure make it much nicer and easier getting around after more than a couple inches of snow.

A bit more on topic-

I have been eyeing the M235 for almost two years now and I periodically make road trips down to Anchorage which is where the only BMW dealer in the state is. This summer I was down there and drooling over the first M235 I have seen in person while at the dealer. A salesman came over to talk to me. I told him I'm kinda waiting for an LCI and mentioned it quite a few times when he finally stopped me and with a confused look on his face asked what an LCI was. I don't think a salesman should know everything about any one specific car but something like not knowing what an LCI is kinda ridiculous.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Tony88

I do agree with you to a point. I live in Alaska and drove my RWD E46 325 through 4 winters as it was my only vehicle at the time. I threw a nice set of Blizzaks on it and I was really surprised just how well it did in the snow and ice. I actually proved to a few people I know that a BMW is very capable in the winter when they all told me I was an idiot for buying a car that can't handle snow. So is X-drive absolutely necessary? No, but it would sure make it much nicer and easier getting around after more than a couple inches of snow.

A bit more on topic-

I have been eyeing the M235 for almost two years now and I periodically make road trips down to Anchorage which is where the only BMW dealer in the state is. This summer I was down there and drooling over the first M235 I have seen in person while at the dealer. A salesman came over to talk to me. I told him I'm kinda waiting for an LCI and mentioned it quite a few times when he finally stopped me and with a confused look on his face asked what an LCI was. I don't think a salesman should know everything about any one specific car but something like not knowing what an LCI is kinda ridiculous.

For some measure of fairness, I worked for decades in the domestic auto industry and never had heard of Life Cycle Impulse, which sounds like an awkward translation from the original German ("impulse"?). This same event is more commonly known as Mid Cycle Action (MCA) by more OE manufacturers. BMW has something rare with this terminology, which is, perhaps, fitting.

[xantdieselx]

Originally Posted by dalrx

Why is x drive a must? Because of snow? Truth be told I live in a major snow belt on the great lakes and we get dumped on here. I have driven rwd stick bmw for last 7 yrs with just snow tires and have had no issue getting around. X drive is over rated as well as all types of awd 4 x4 etc if you are just doing normal dd.

I say x-drive is a must because of how much snow we get in RI. I've had rwd cars with snows (G35 coupe) and the fact is there are fine when you are moving but starting from a stop is a pita. Especially if you're trying to get up a hill. Not only that I was running 18" Dunlop Winter Sports and they felt like marshmallows compared to the Bridgestone Potenza's that came on the car.

I had an E92 x-drive. that I ran a staggered 19" setup with Conti-Extreme Contact DSW's and it was the perfect all season setup. You didn't give up too much in the summer with respect to handling and they worked really well in the snow.

My plan is to order the M235i in x-drive with the PS2's (I'm done with RFT's) and switch to some DSW's some winter.

I just want to see how it drives before I plunk down the 50k on one.

As far as the salesman, I look at it this way. Would you trust that salesmen to order a car for you? Or bettering yet order you a car for ED? We're talking about basic product knowledge. Salespeople should be knowledgeable...its their job.

[mfourn20]

I made it through last winter with my 228i RWD in RI....it was fine.

I ran a square setup with 17" wheels...It was a little squishy...but as you know the roads around here are absolute crap in the summer and even worse in the winter. I was able to launch in the snow just fine, and I had a very steep driveway at the time...made it up unplowed every time...even the night before they banned driving.

[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by Vegetable

Where did you "rent" "several" 228i's? I'm assuming you mean you received 228i's as loaners, but want to clarify...If I'm correct and you indeed got 228i's on "several" occasions as loaners than your BMW dealership is awesome.. I always get 328d's, 328i's, X5s, etc. all of which are not nearly as fun to drive as a 228i.

From Sixt. They have a number of major airport locations in the US, and have a large number of German cars. They are a German company. Super cheap too - I don't think I have paid more than $39/day for a 2-series.

I'll be in Atlanta the end of this week, hoping to get another one. Usually it is a choice of the 2, A3, or CLA. I do kind of want to try a CLA to see if it is as terrible as many have said. The A3 just feels like a Golf.