Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering
You are focusing on a single variable, gains, and concluding an overall comparison. That is flawed logic. The end result may be similar but the process for getting there can be vastly different. A Kia Optima and a BMW 328i have about the same horsepower rating so by your logic they should be the same price. Quality of materials, engineering, etc in reality make it a more expensive product. In the case of this specific tuning the Dinan method is to make the DINANTRONICS module transparent to the factory engine management meaning that all related variables are changed in unison so nothing is out of whack and the factory ECU isn't stumbling on itself trying to correct for perceived errors. This results in retained engine check system and superior drivability. We could get the same end power result by simply turning up the boost and letting the factory DME and knock sensor constantly try to auto correct all the other values (as some tuners do) but its not as refined a solution. Then there is also the warranty and emissions element that increases cost (again the only tuner to offer a factory matching warranty and be emissions legal in all 50 states). As much as you wish to discredit those 2 pieces they are still at play when considering cost.
I'm also confused by your last statement as we almost always are lower then the competition as far as output because we don't want to over-exert the engine and sacrifice engine life so I am not sure where you are getting that data from because its simply not accurate.
In your comparison to the Kia, though the engineering and materials may not be as good, you are also not paying BMW prices, so it is disingenuous and misleading analogy. To follow that logic, for the prices you are charging, there is no tangible proof that your engineering nor materials used in your products are any better than your competitors...aside from your word of mouth, hence the need to see if your claims are accurate. Anyone can "claim" to be the best, but independent measurement will prove it to be true. How is that concept not being heard??
I never said we were concerned about the magazine fully testing our product. We encourage it. What I made mention of was that performance derived from these publications is flawed just because of how/what they do to achieve their numbers. No amount of engineering can safeguard against an aggressive tester that treats a manual transmission like it has no limits and they simply don't care. We have replaced numerous gearboxes due to publications attempting to "maximize numbers".
If the Dinan product excels in the magazine tests, are we still to conclude that their results are still flawed or are they only flawed if the Dinan product doesn't support the premium pricing charged??
Not discounting them as potential customers at all. We would love them to become customers but the fact of the matter is if the customer is price centric and just wants the cheapest solution chances are the Dinan product will never make it into the picture or be considered. With demo/loaner cars there's at least the off chance that if they get into the vehicle they may realize the value and change their attitude. But without the experience no chance is ever given by the price centric customer. Those that will at least entertain Dinan as an option will do the research and typically reach out to the dealer for questions, test drives, etc and they can experience everything first hand. If its not enough power for them they simply move on.
Obviously there will always be some buyers who are looking for the cheapest solution at the expense of quality just to have statistical bragging rights. In fact, I met a dope recently with a modified M3 who was proud to have fitted his car with mods produced in China and Korea. That's not the buyer I'm talking about here, so let's discount that type of cheapskate who is all flash and no substance as not a true car guy.
I'll address the exhaust tip comments below in response to your follow-up post.
I'm sure it did just fine in their head to head test. As to whether or not it is up to snuff for the individuals needs and the value proposition they have in their head that is an entirely different question. One that each and every potential customer would have to weigh themselves.
You never did address my original question though in regards to these independent tests from major publications.... Why is Dinan the only tuner that is held to this standard? Seems a bit biased to me and is a clear indicator that Dinan, for whatever the reason, is held to a totally different standard then everyone else.
If after many thousands of dollars in mods, the tests reveal that the Dinan car is just barely better than stock, then I'd conclude that your products are in fact very expensive snake oil. However, it the performance metrics show significant gains, then I can only conclude that your claims of actual engineering/R&D are valid. The proof is in the pudding, and if you are going claim to do it better than everyone else and charge accordingly, then you should be held to a higher standard.
How did you derive that the Turner product was the one you wanted when no independent testing from major (or any for that matter) publications exists on it?
Simple, I drove their tuned car extensively, and concluded that the product met my specific needs: improved drivability, added performance, quality design, and lastly, I also took a flyer for a not so insignicant amount of money which was more than most other providers but still nearly half the cost of the Dinan product. BTW...Don't you worry, I fully intend to drive one of BMW Gallery's demo cars and compare your product to the Turner one to see if it is in fact a better product. If it is, I'll buy it, if not, I will stick with the Turner tune.
You keep insisting our tips are the main problem we have in exhaust sales. The complaints we hear and reasoning we get back for our exhausts not selling are typically anything but the tips. Out of every 20 complaints, maybe 1 is tip related. Maybe. Sure, more options could help but nowhere near the fix all of our problems type of solution that you seem to imply. The most common complaint on our exhaust is its too quiet. We make a drone free, civilized exhaust and the loud droning boomy exhaust is not what we strive to make and in fact is the exact opposite.
Two thoughts, if you are getting many more than 20 complaints about your product, perhaps you should actually listen to their concerns and offer two versions, one more mild and one more aggressive. My job as a potential customer is not to school Dinan about competitive positioning in the marketplace, just to raise a few questions about why there is so many disbelievers in the Dinan Value Proposition and suggest a review of where you could be better at meeting potential customers needs...in essence, broadening your appeal. Personally, if I ever decide to replace my MPE with a Dinan exhaust in the future, you can be certain that I will remove your hokey tips and replace them with something of a much more modern and aestetically appealing design. Sadly, I shouldn't have to, but clearly you guys are not interested in listening to customer feedback. I'm sure AWE, Eisenmann, Akrapovic, SuperSprint, BMW MPE, etc will be blissfully happy to know that you are complacently pleased with your 30 year old design and not even open-minded to the suggestion of modifying it.
Thats the beauty of competition... if you don't like what one vendor provides you can always go to another that may be more in line with your needs. Its incredibly hard to satisfy everyone and in most cases, impossible. There will always be an outlier.
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