Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob
I think some of the disagreement comes from how we drive our cars and how long we keep them. For example, I noticed that some of the posters that think dropping the temp gauge replace their cars pretty often. Also, some might not work on their cars. Some of us keep our cars a long time, out of warranty and work on cars both personally and in my case I did a stint in the dyno and test department of an IMSA GTP team. My best friend owns an independent Mercedes BMW only shop and I sometimes help him when he gets busy. I see the tidal wave of 8 year old BMWs with burst expansion tanks and radiators, plastic water pump impellers that fail and even the E90/92 electric water pumps. Thermostats, etc. His bread and butter is BMW cooling systems, window regulators and brake jobs. If you look at consumer reports reliability ratings, you will see BMW is below average on engine cooling issues. When the first 335i's came out they were overheating and owners saw that with their easy to read temp gauge. BMW eventually added oil coolers to those that didn't get one. So those of us that drive older BMWs find that the temp gauge is important.
Some of the responses have been go buy a 20 blue tooth app for your iphone after you spend $50K and by the way, pay extra for the bluetooth option on top of it and hope you didn't accidentally switch off bluetooth when your expansion tank goes. Others like the cool 235i logo where the boring gauge used to sit on the 1 series.
Let me ask all of you than think that dropping the temp gauge is progress even if just for a logo or because you can dig through it in some nested digital display. If BMW drops the gas gauge in the next model, would you be concerned? Would you merrily go buy an iphone app to tell you when you are low on gas? Would you call those that think dropping the fuel gauge, grandpas and whiners? Seriously, curious what is your threshold. At what point would you come over to our side? After they drop the fuel gauge, tach, speedo? Maybe the drop the PRNDL on the automatics and you have to count the clicks on the auto stick. Chime in and let us know at what point of dropping instrumentation would you feel compelled to consider that you are not willing go give that up?
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This argument fails on so many levels. There is no analogy to be made between monitoring fuel levels and monitoring engine temperature. Engine temperature is monitored for an
exception condition. Fuel depletion is an
expected result. Put another way, you monitor fuel levels because you expect that they'll go down over time, requiring a user-serviceable petrol fill-up. On the other hand, you
shouldn't need to monitor engine temperatures, because they're managed by the engine control systems. If everything goes as expected, fuel depletes. If everything goes as expected, engine temperature remains within operating parameters.
I think you've framed the disagreement incorrectly. The disagreement isn't between those who drive their cars for a long time and those who don't, it's between those who place their trust in the engine management systems and those who don't.
Please don't misinterpret me. I'm not weighing in on either side of that argument in the statement above. Many people have good reason to distrust the "smarts" inside their BMW. They've been burned (ha, pun!) by bad temperature monitoring in the past.
The dirty secret here is that coolant temperature needle gauges haven't really been accurate (in many cars) for a long time. They're "damped" by the engine control systems. And using the term "damped" is really generous. In reality, they're just an idiot light that happens to use a needle to indicate status. In many cars, the needle represents conditions, not actual temperature. For example, the needle might have a few ranges: warm-up, normal, overheat, critical.
Also consider the manufacturer's perspective. Interpreting a temperature gauge requires some degree of nuance. Consumers' perception of how an engine works is often grossly incorrect. How many worry warts do you think make a trip to the dealership if the coolant temp needle edges a little bit close to the hot side? How many of those trips are actually warranted? Manufacturers desperately want to reduce these spurious visits.
My opinion is that enthusiast oriented cars should still have them. It just seems to me that an enthusiast would want to know about the reality under the hood. I don't want/need the car's control systems interpreting the data. I'd prefer to do that myself. Manufacturers already charge a premium for enthusiast oriented cars, so why not dedicate some of those profits toward giving us what we want? When considering the cost impact, you have to consider the support issues that arise with providing a coolant temperature gauge, however. It's not a simple matter of a $2 gauge on the cluster. I still think it's worth it though.