Quote:
Originally Posted by schybrid
1.whats the difference between your tune and jb4 ?
2.seems like a lot of money for just a re-flashed existing ecu ?
3.do you alter the ecu other than the program/software...meaning....do you alter the actual hardware at all ??
4.what guarantee do you have that it is safe for the motor / electronics ?
5.what parameters are changed with the tune ? fuel,boost,timing, etc ?
6.where is the ecu located ?
7. if ecu is removed, and sent out for reflash, does any part of the computer, car etc get affected by the ecu being out of the car for xx number of days ?
8. is your tune, plug and play, and comes with SET parameters, all equal ? no adjustment, similar to jb4 diff maps etc ? not saying its bad, just asking.
9. if your tune is installed on stock car, and then other performance parts added after, will the tune adjust accordingly ?
10. has the tune been tested, and fuel ratios good , no detonation ?
11. seems like a ton of power compared to other tunes, why ?
12. does the auto transmission handle this amount of added power without slipping ?
sorry for soo many questions, but i like to be proactive vs reactive.  |
1.whats the difference between your tune and jb4 ?
Piggyback systems intercept ECU signals and alter them to trick the embedded systems to change input variables such as boost. There are limitations of what this technology can do given what can effectively be intercepted and the complexities of the adaptive capabilities of modern ECUs. This makes the JB4 technology inconsistent, especially at the higher limits. The technology also cannot take advantage of all the safeguards already built into the ECU. On the plus side they have processing capabilities of their own to control things like fuel scaling for running ethanol blends and controlling meth systems. We have been testing running JB4s on top of our tunes so you can get the best of both worlds.
ECU based tuning is technically far more effective because you have direct control over the ECU and can leverage all the safeguards already built into the embedded software/hardware. For example, within the ECU, we don’t just program in more boost, we ask the ECU for more torque and it processes how to achieve that level of torque – if any of the safety parameters respond back saying there is a critical variable that is over the limit the ECU will not deliver the torque asked for. You may have read the 228 auto cars that have a torque limit that has been reported as misfires under load. This is a torque limit in the code that is triggered that actually starts to electronically close the throttle to reduce torque. It feels like misfires but it’s just the ECU doing what it is supposed to do.
2.seems like a lot of money for just a re-flashed existing ecu ?
This is a software business so all the expense is R&D and dyno time – walking through binary code, knowing what you are looking at and changing a bunch of 1’s and 0’s to achieve the desired result. We do this all in-house. The majority of “tuners” out there are simply buying files or stealing files by copying them out of an ECU that another tuner loaded. They have limited knowledge of what the binary changes actually do. We typically see about 30 variables changed in competitors flash tune products. In our latest N55 tune we change 130 variables. I know because you receive a physical product with a piggyback system it seems like there is more inherent value but that’s not really the value – it’s the performance or features that you get that is the true value.
With JB4 you get an OK tune for pretty cheap with some really cool extra features like map switching for ethanol blends and meth injection control. With the Dinan you get a conservative tune for a LOT of money and a secondary insurance policy for piece of mind. With our product you get arguably one of the best tunes in the industry for the price between the JB4 and Dinan.
3.do you alter the ecu other than the program/software...meaning....do you alter the actual hardware at all ??
We do not alter hardware. We also don’t drill the ECUs like some tuners do so when you get your ECU back is looks exactly the way it looked when it was sent to us. Opening the N20/N26 and N63 ECUs is incredibly difficult – takes about an hour and specialty tools to do it right. No shortcuts for us.
4.what guarantee do you have that it is safe for the motor / electronics ?
We do our best based on our years of experience to gauge what is appropriate for the various cars we tune. Nothing is 100% and there are a lot of variables that typically contribute to failures. We guarantee that our products will deliver on what we promise but we cannot warranty failures else we would have to be charging way more to cover the secondary insurance policy similar to what Dinan has done.
We also run pro level road racing programs where we actually do failure testing. Specifically we know there are limits to the N20/N26 motors and we are building a race program for the Pirelli World Challenge series around the 228i so you will hear about our engine testing for that program in the not to distant future. I don’t think you will find many other tuners that are willing to sacrifice an $11,000 motor to better understand it’s weaknesses.
5.what parameters are changed with the tune ? fuel,boost,timing, etc ?
We are typically dealing with torque, fuel, timing, A/F and VANOS. We don’t typically override and control boost directly because that starts to override the built in safety features. There are a bunch of other variables we change that make everything work in harmony so you don’t get random errors that would otherwise be generated. The first sign of a bad flash tune is one that is constantly generating “Drivetrain malfunction” errors. They haven’t figured out all the small adjustments that need to be made to support the primary changes.
6.where is the ecu located ?
On the N55 it is built into the underside of the airbox. Not exactly easy to get out but we will be posting a how to video in the next few days.
7. if ecu is removed, and sent out for reflash, does any part of the computer, car etc get affected by the ecu being out of the car for xx number of days ?
No, after you disconnect the battery it just sees it as a power lose.
8. is your tune, plug and play, and comes with SET parameters, all equal ? no adjustment, similar to jb4 diff maps etc ? not saying its bad, just asking.
No, the nature of the flash tune is that it is what it is. There is no manual adjustability. For those customers looking for something specific we have standard options they can ask for like eliminating the top speed limiter, or keeping the exhaust flappers open all the time. We also have different versions of tunes based on what you want to achieve. A tune for drag racing is different than a tune for running your car on the track. As an example the track tune of the M4 rounds off the initial torque curve at lower RPMs because the car produces so much torque and the peak is around 3,000 RPMs it becomes difficult to get the power down without turning down the torque on the low end.
9. if your tune is installed on stock car, and then other performance parts added after, will the tune adjust accordingly ?
Yes, based on how we are adjusting things, we can leverage the adaptive nature of the embedded systems so if you add higher octane fuel it will adaptive and give you a little bit more. Our stages are as follows:
Stage 1 – stock car.
Stage 2 – addition of downpipe and possibly freer flowing exhaust
Stage 2+ - addition of charge side cooling i.e. FMIC
Stage 3 – upgraded turbos
Stage 4 – custom solution that might include whole new turbos and/or plenums/piping.
10. has the tune been tested, and fuel ratios good , no detonation ?
That’s a question we love to answer. Similar to how we ask the ECU for more torque, we tell the ECU what A/F ratios we want, if it can’t achieve those the safety parameters kick in. In this case we don’t ever really run into a scenario where A/F goes out of whack unless we get way into a safety parameter and an alternate fuel map kicks in which makes the car go rich to cool the cylinder. This is what happens on the top end of a lot of the piggyback systems as they can’t control the car switching to alt fuel maps. When the car kicks in to those it manifests itself as misfires. We see that a lot when testing piggyback systems.
11. seems like a ton of power compared to other tunes, why ?
Short answer it ECU flash tunes are better technology for adding power (except in the case of ethanol mixes and meth injection) and we (Matt) are really good at it.
12. does the auto transmission handle this amount of added power without slipping ?
Currently we feel the Stage 1 is within operating parameters of the transmission. We haven’t officially released Stage 2 yet until we do a bit more testing specifically on the AT cars.